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Faster than Thunder (topic ban on all food-related topics)
[edit]Faster than Thunder (talk · contribs) has repeatedly edited topics related to food items that they clearly do not understand and have been told about this multiple times by Ikan Kekek and Asamboi either on their talk page. While the act of editing unfamiliar articles is not specifically disruptive, it has taken a very long time to convince this user that what they're doing is problematic and they have shown no sign that they will discontinue.
This behaviour of delving into content areas they do not understand is not specific to the English Wikivoyage but also a pattern that has come out of this user on Meta and on the Wikimedia Incubator (where they were previously blocked for this type of behaviour). As such, I don't think a sitewide timed or indef userban will be effective (especially given a) their young age b) their contributions tend to be on and off, so Wikivoyage:How to handle unwanted edits will do nothing in this case), and I propose the following:
For the next 6 months:
- Faster than Thunder is prohibited from editing Food and drink and all articles breadcrumbed beneath it.
- Faster than Thunder is prohibited from adding cuisine-related material to "Eat" sections of country and region articles, including material involving vegetarian and kosher food. This does not apply to city, rural area and park articles.
- The above two points also apply to reverts except in the case of obvious vandalism, spam or touting.
- Faster than Thunder, however, may propose any changes to food-related material on the respective talk page or on the Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub.
Any violations of this will result in a sitewide block for the remaining duration of the topic ban.
//shb (t | c | m) 08:56, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Support as proposer. //shb (t | c | m) 08:56, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- @SHB2000, I don't think we should turn this discussion into a time machine. m:Meta:Requests for adminship/Faster than Thunder and the block on the Incubator you're referring to were 3 years ago. Today, my contributions to Meta and the Incubator are mostly legitimate. How do my behavior on Meta or on the Incubator in the present show your points? Faster than Thunder (talk) 18:28, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Because it very clearly demonstrates that your behaviour on-wiki has not changed. You know this yourself, I'm not sure why you can't fully comprehend it and accept the reality. //shb (t | c | m) 23:20, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Wikivoyage is the only place I can think of that I am problematic on today. I can't think of any illegitimate behavior on Meta nor the Incubator. I admit having a power-hungry beginning three years ago, but today, I am not doing anything controversial on Meta or the Incubator. On those wikis, I am not repeating the issues from three years ago. Me doing unfamiliar things here is not like that power-hungry beginning. Above all of these, I admit stirring up conflicts about food and dietary restrictions on Wikivoyage though. I will support any edits in "Eat" sections with a reliable source in my edit summaries from now on and also refrain from edits I cannot appropriately source. Faster than Thunder (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, if you insist: what about this or this? Took me less than 2 minutes to find those. //shb (t | c | m) 23:49, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- I understand, but those were from two months ago, and they are not very plentiful. Faster than Thunder (talk) 23:53, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Sure, if you insist: what about this or this? Took me less than 2 minutes to find those. //shb (t | c | m) 23:49, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Wikivoyage is the only place I can think of that I am problematic on today. I can't think of any illegitimate behavior on Meta nor the Incubator. I admit having a power-hungry beginning three years ago, but today, I am not doing anything controversial on Meta or the Incubator. On those wikis, I am not repeating the issues from three years ago. Me doing unfamiliar things here is not like that power-hungry beginning. Above all of these, I admit stirring up conflicts about food and dietary restrictions on Wikivoyage though. I will support any edits in "Eat" sections with a reliable source in my edit summaries from now on and also refrain from edits I cannot appropriately source. Faster than Thunder (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- @SHB2000: I understand you after all you have told, but if, in your original statement, you had included:
- "This behaviour of delving into content areas they do not understand is not specific to the English Wikivoyage but also a pattern that has previously come out of this user on Meta and on the Wikimedia Incubator (where they were previously blocked for this type of behaviour)."
- instead of:
- "This behaviour of delving into content areas they do not understand is not specific to the English Wikivoyage but also a pattern that has come out of this user on Meta and on the Wikimedia Incubator (where they were previously blocked for this type of behaviour)."
- ...then it would be easier to understand. I'm autistic, and because you did not include "previously" originally, people might think I'm also actively disruptive on Meta and the Incubator when my activity there clearly implies otherwise. Faster than Thunder (talk) 14:05, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Because it very clearly demonstrates that your behaviour on-wiki has not changed. You know this yourself, I'm not sure why you can't fully comprehend it and accept the reality. //shb (t | c | m) 23:20, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- My direct editing relating to Filipino and kosher food were invalid because they are actually false or they are not supportable by reliable sources. I promise to use reliable sources to determine whether something is true and whether to actually make the edit here. This means no AI tools, and I might as well start reverting my "garbage" edits to those topics. Faster than Thunder (talk) 21:32, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- @SHB2000, I don't think we should turn this discussion into a time machine. m:Meta:Requests for adminship/Faster than Thunder and the block on the Incubator you're referring to were 3 years ago. Today, my contributions to Meta and the Incubator are mostly legitimate. How do my behavior on Meta or on the Incubator in the present show your points? Faster than Thunder (talk) 18:28, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- I Support this measured and carefully targeted topic ban. Can I add that they are not to archive active discussions on their user talk page? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:18, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Support, although I'd probably start with less than six months. Asamboi (talk) 12:22, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- I don't understand why you would support if my only edits since your last warning were to this ban nomination and nowhere else. Faster than Thunder (talk) 16:59, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose I have not done anything since this warning, even though it included "cease and desist." My kosher-related edits have started to acknowledge that certified options are usually difficult to find outside Israel even when technically compliant food isn't. By the way, on Meta, much of my edits are vandalism-fighting, and on Incubator, today, all of my edits are within Wy/ta. I was found not to be a real LTA on my Incubator block because of the severity of abuse. Faster than Thunder (talk) 15:45, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Your response makes it clear that you both a) still do not understand why your editing of these topics is problematic and that b) you are unwilling to change your behavior. If you wish to avoid a ban, please address these two topics head on. Asamboi (talk) 20:54, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- My (now at least 1 week old) direct editing in those areas were invalid because either they are not adequately supportable by external sources or they are actually false. I promise to use reliable sources to determine whether something is true and whether to actually make the edit here. This means no AI tools. Faster than Thunder (talk) 21:34, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- For kosher-related edits, I will show I acknowledge even when technically compliant food is easy to find, finding certified food can still be difficult. By the way, I have autism (high-functioning), so keep this in mind if need be. Faster than Thunder (talk) 21:36, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Kashrut is a religious law, so there is no such thing as "technical compliance", and certification by a supervising rabbi is required. This has been repeatedly explained to you. Each kosher-observant Jew makes their own choices about how strict to be, whether to make any compromises, and if so, which ones. That has also been repeatedly explained to you, but it hasn't been easy for you to accept, for whatever reason. Can you please stop repeatedly going over the same ground, including on talk pages? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:02, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- What I meant was that if one makes compromises as to whether certification is required, they can easily find it in some places outside of Israel, but if they require certification, it can be really difficult outside of Israel. By the way, if I stop my controversial edits, I want you to stop stalking me, especially if I make only constructive contributions. Faster than Thunder (talk) 23:02, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Replying to remarks you post on talk pages is not "stalking". And no, I will not stop replying to ignorant or strange remarks you put on talk pages, especially where you are proposing to make edits that I disagree with in some way. And if you want to nominate me for some type of user ban, start a new thread. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:14, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- What I meant was that if one makes compromises as to whether certification is required, they can easily find it in some places outside of Israel, but if they require certification, it can be really difficult outside of Israel. By the way, if I stop my controversial edits, I want you to stop stalking me, especially if I make only constructive contributions. Faster than Thunder (talk) 23:02, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Kashrut is a religious law, so there is no such thing as "technical compliance", and certification by a supervising rabbi is required. This has been repeatedly explained to you. Each kosher-observant Jew makes their own choices about how strict to be, whether to make any compromises, and if so, which ones. That has also been repeatedly explained to you, but it hasn't been easy for you to accept, for whatever reason. Can you please stop repeatedly going over the same ground, including on talk pages? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:02, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- For kosher-related edits, I will show I acknowledge even when technically compliant food is easy to find, finding certified food can still be difficult. By the way, I have autism (high-functioning), so keep this in mind if need be. Faster than Thunder (talk) 21:36, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- My (now at least 1 week old) direct editing in those areas were invalid because either they are not adequately supportable by external sources or they are actually false. I promise to use reliable sources to determine whether something is true and whether to actually make the edit here. This means no AI tools. Faster than Thunder (talk) 21:34, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Your response makes it clear that you both a) still do not understand why your editing of these topics is problematic and that b) you are unwilling to change your behavior. If you wish to avoid a ban, please address these two topics head on. Asamboi (talk) 20:54, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Comment: Regardless of how this discussion ends, I will continue to fight vandalism on other wikis. I have learned that except for vandalism-fighting, I think it is not a good idea to edit Wikivoyage unless you're actually on vacation or you travel relatively often. I would be best suited for other wikis. Faster than Thunder (talk) 02:56, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- This discussion is for Wikivoyage only, and I would ask that you limit your edits to topics you are personally familiar with. You have never been to the Philippines, so you should not edit content about Filipino food. You are not Jewish or otherwise closely familiar with kosher food, so you should not edit content about kashrut. Asamboi (talk) 04:08, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- If this discussion is for Wikivoyage only, what do other wikis have to do with my behavior here? I'm not getting very controversial on other wikis, so it's unclear why SHB2000 is bringing my behavior on other wikis into the picture. After all of these, I deleted my addition about halal/kosher food to Slovenia since vegetarianism is not the norm there. As a result, even if one makes compromises to allow uncertified food that otherwise complies with their religious diet, Slovenia is substantially into meat, so no. Faster than Thunder (talk) 05:00, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- I bring it up because this is not the first time you've edited areas you don't know – I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to understand. Nobody said this topic ban will affect your ability to edit other wikis. You are still the same person on Meta and on the Incubator; being on a different wiki doesn't mean your behavioural issues magically vanish. //shb (t | c | m) 08:08, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- If this discussion is for Wikivoyage only, what do other wikis have to do with my behavior here? I'm not getting very controversial on other wikis, so it's unclear why SHB2000 is bringing my behavior on other wikis into the picture. After all of these, I deleted my addition about halal/kosher food to Slovenia since vegetarianism is not the norm there. As a result, even if one makes compromises to allow uncertified food that otherwise complies with their religious diet, Slovenia is substantially into meat, so no. Faster than Thunder (talk) 05:00, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- This discussion is for Wikivoyage only, and I would ask that you limit your edits to topics you are personally familiar with. You have never been to the Philippines, so you should not edit content about Filipino food. You are not Jewish or otherwise closely familiar with kosher food, so you should not edit content about kashrut. Asamboi (talk) 04:08, 14 July 2025 (UTC)