Talk:Kolkata Voyage Tips and guide

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Swept in from the pub

Yesterday a user replaced links to Baranagar by links to Sundarbans National Park. I don't see any discussion about Baranagar being an unwanted destination. So, I wonder why this is done. If there is no reason for this, should we revert those edits? --FredTC (talk) 08:28, 23 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

You linked all their contributions. If it was this edit only (on Kolkata/Maidan) you could have linked it directly to avoid having everybody check many of their contributions to find it.

In Kolkata/Maidan there was this sole go next entry, and now there is this other one alone. I don't see any reason not to have several. I also don't know Kolkata, and neither the former nor the current entry explains why it is relevant. I'd readd the former and leave the current, but I think it is odd that the park is linked from at least six of Kolkata's districts. Is it really that relevant to all of them?

–LPfi (talk) 12:11, 23 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm sorry for the inconvenience. I did it this way because the action was repeated so many times. You are right that having Baranagar in so many Go next lists is strange, just as having Sundarbans National Park now in all those Go next lists. I think having Baranagar in only 1 or 2 Go next lists would be OK. And Sundarbans National Park could be in the main Kolkata article only. --FredTC (talk) 14:03, 23 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

You are invited to participate the discussion at Talk:Kolkata/East. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 11:02, 15 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

I want to create the following city districts of Kolkata, given the high amount of content in Kolkata/East:

• Kolkata/Rajarhat-New Town
• Kolkata/Salt Lake City (currently redirects to Kolkata/East)

-- Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:05, 17 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

I don't think a nickname should be the name of the article (or any article). --FredTC (talk) 10:19, 17 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

I have withdrawn the proposal, given the article is not big enough to be splitted. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 06:17, 18 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

I have seen in numerous districts that the URL in listings more often contain Zomato (or Facebook, TripAdvisor, Trivago, Ixigo etc.) websites rather than the official website of the listings. For those who don't know, Zomato is an online food delivery startup in India. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 05:05, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Please remove all such links, except that an establishment's Facebook page is OK to link if they have no home page and there's no governmental site for whatever it is. Zomato and other good delivery services might be OK to mention with a link in India#Eat, perhaps - that would have to be discussed at Talk:India, to determine whether we'd make an exception to normal external links policy for them - but not on any local guides. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:24, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Facebook is acceptable if the POI has no official website, but please do remove the other unofficial websites. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:45, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Instead of splitting large districts, we should now focus on defining the district borders, particularly of Kolkata/North, Kolkata/Esplanade and Kolkata/Maidan, which are quite fuzzy when I created mapmasks for them. I think the boundary between North Kolkata and Esplanade should go largely along Bepin Behari Ganguly St. The boundary between Esplanade and Maidan is also fuzzy, especially along Park St. We should discuss on whether the Park St area should belong to Esplanade or Maidan. (now fixed) Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:25, 17 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

It looks like @Anirban Kolkata has already put forward a similar proposal back in 2021. I'll review it and see what can I do with it. Of course, the mapmasks will be compromised but I'll make a replacement. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:46, 17 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I've reviewed the earlier proposal but the proposal put forward by Anirban Kolkata is to split the city into Northern suburbs, North, Central, South, West and Southern suburbs. While I might agree with him to make a separate district for the southwestern part of the city (I prefer Southwest Kolkata for the district name), I still can't make out how he could make a boundary between North and Central Kolkata (or Esplanade) with the College St as the street runs from north to south. Therefore, I will implement my proposal on the North-Esplanade boundary by a note in the "Understand" section of Kolkata/North. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:57, 17 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

In the second case, it looks like the Park St area should belong to Esplanade. I'll reinforce it soon, alongside the North Birbhum merger. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 04:33, 18 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Both are done. As of now, I'm thinking about creating Kolkata/Southwest, carving out of Kolkata/South and Kolkata/Southern fringes. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 12:17, 18 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

The Kolkata/Northern fringes and Kolkata/Southern fringes articles have too much railway station listing, which might violate our WV:7+2 rule. So we should either split the listings into subsections or remove the stations with the least traffic. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 08:09, 19 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I don't think violating the 7±2 is a problem in this case. I assume at least local trains stop at all stations they pass, which means you can check what station is closest to you hotel or whatever, which is useful. They should probably be grouped by train line. –LPfi (talk) 08:25, 19 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for input. Another problem I've discovered is that the train stations like Howrah Junction and Santragachi Junction are listed in Kolkata as they more-or-less serve the city (indeed, most people use Howrah Junction to reach Kolkata). However, they are in Howrah, a different city. So what should we do with them? Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:32, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I think they still can be listed. If there is much to tell about them, they could be linked to the description in the district were they are. I tried to do that in Special:Diff/4505536/4505623. Ideally the description would be very short, concentrating on getting to Kolkata from there, but I think what trains the stations serve may be important, and a short characterisation of the station is also useful. The point is to include enough information for readers to know whether they want to click the link and read the full listing. –LPfi (talk) 13:54, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for both input and your contributions. Happy editing. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 11:47, 22 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

While listings in Kolkata/Baranagar, Kolkata/Barrackpore and Kalyani are sufficient, the listings in Kolkata/Northern fringes have been problematic and it turns out that the three aforementioned destinations were originally part of the northern fringes and were later split as separate cities without any discussion. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:48, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

• Support per nomination by local expert. Ground Zero (talk) 12:29, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm closing this discussion by performing the merger. This might take some time. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 15:32, 28 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

The lengthy description is here:

• Bangladesh — Tickets for buses running to the border and Dhaka can be reserved at Shyamoli Yatri Paribahan, 6/1 Marquis St (parallel to and one block south of Sudder Street, and just west of Mirza Ghalib St, next door to DHL), ☏ +91 33 2252 0693. 2-3 buses per day leave this office on Tu, Th and Sa, usually at 5:30AM, 8:30AM and 12:30PM. The fare is ₹86 to the Haridaspur border post (about 2½ hr). All the way to Dhaka (with a bus change at the border) will cost ₹550 (about 12 hr). Beware that several travel agencies around this area also sell tickets for these buses, but at very inflated prices. At the border, it's best to change money on the Indian side, but count it carefully and double-check the maths on their calculator. On the Bangladesh side, there are some bus stands just behind the border, or you can catch a flat-bed cycle-rickshaw for Tk5 for the 2 km trip to the bus stand for onward travel, or you can walk, but expect the hopeful rickshaw-wallahs to follow you at least halfway.

Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:33, 31 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Kolkata/Northern fringes is supposed to cover the northern suburbs of Kolkata, while Kolkata/Southern fringes is supposed to cover the southern suburbs of Kolkata. While the northern fringes remain separate municipalities, most of the southern fringes are within Kolkata proper since 1980 and are commonly recognised as such. Therefore, we have to merge Kolkata/Southern fringes into Kolkata/South and then split the southwestern portion of the resultant district (e.g. Alipore, Behala, Budge Budge, Joka, Kidderpore, Maheshtala, Taratala) to Kolkata/Southwest, with the border between South and Southwest Kolkata be along the Adi Ganga (upto Tollygunge Club) and Mahatma Gandhi Road (not to be confused with the one in North Kolkata). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 05:39, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

I've also proposed to rename Kolkata/Esplanade to Kolkata/Central but keep Kolkata/Maidan as it is. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:17, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Support Seems reasonable. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:21, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Can you explain a bit on how it is reasonable, since changes on district hierarchy can be contentious? Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:16, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

It looks like I'll plunge forward and create Southwest Kolkata. However, I think I need districts like Ballygunge-Dhakuria and Jadavpur-Tollygunge. The latter will be discussed once we get enough listings. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:37, 6 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I have seen numerous huge city articles that focus on city proper only. Even in the case of Los Angeles, only the city proper is districted and the outskirts are grouped into regions. However, we can't just copy the case of LA in here, as it would be inconvenient for travellers, considering that certain suburbs may or may not be considered part of Kolkata by locals (Bidhannagar is almost always considered part of Kolkata, while Barrackpore is generally considered a separate town). Therefore, should we rescope the article to cover Kolkata proper (KMC area aka Kolkata district) only? If there's a consensus to do so, this article will be rescoped and the suburbs will have their own articles. IMO Baranagar, Barasat, Barrackpore, Bhatpara, Bidhannagar, Dum Dum, Kalyani, Kamarhati, Naihati, New Town (Southeast Bengal), Panihati and Rajpur Sonarpur are candidates for such articles. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:02, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Of course, there are cities like Lagos and Sydney that don't have a concrete city proper and thus cover an agglomeration of several local government areas. However, all cities in India have a well-defined city proper administered by one or more municipalities. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:19, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Oh, I found another huge city article covering a metropolitan area, Rome. However, the huge city article has a clear division between city proper and suburban area. Therefore, we should keep the scope of Kolkata as it is and focus on the organisation of travel content instead. I will instead divide Kolkata/Northern fringes and Kolkata/East into smaller districts. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:02, 26 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

It looks like the Rome article does not even cover the entire metropolitan area. In fact, some suburbs (notably Fiumicino) have their own city articles. I think I should discuss on the same at the pub. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:34, 8 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Seems like the Wikivoyage definition of Kolkata is quite arbitrary and it is quite hard to get boundaries of Wikivoyage Kolkata. So I've decided to reduce the definition of Kolkata to just the city proper and any relations among the city proper and the suburbs can be described at "Understand" section. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:40, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

I was previously frustrating about the Kolkata/East article for its amount of listings and proposed to split the district. However, the proposal was not satisfactory and I recalled it. Now, I have revisited the issue and proposed to split the district into Kolkata/East and Kolkata/Eastern Suburbs. Besides, I am also thinking of splitting Kolkata/Northern Suburbs into Kolkata/Northern Suburbs and Kolkata/Barasat-Dum Dum due to the size. However, the split may not be efficient in the short term. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 18:14, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I have withdrawn the split of Kolkata/Northern Suburbs, as I have split off Barasat as a separate city. However, I should go ahead with the split of East Kolkata instead. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:38, 29 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

English Wikipedia's List of tourist attractions in Kolkata should be worth checking and determining whether any content from the list can be imported to Wikivoyage. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:47, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

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Considering the number of listings in Kolkata/Esplanade, I have decided to split the district into Kolkata/B. B. D. Bagh and Kolkata/Esplanade. For the sake of consistency, the boundaries of new districts will be based on civic ward boundaries rather than arbitrary ones. B. B. D. Bagh will follow Ward No. 45, while Esplanade will follow Ward No. 46. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 13:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Considering that many of my new districts are not useful while considering the number of listings (with B. B. D. Bagh, Baranagar and Dakshineswar, and New Town being exceptions), I have decided to settle at the following district breakdown to cover maximum see and do listings of the city (as of 2024):

• B. B. D. Bagh: see=15, do=3
• East Kolkata: see+do=13, buy=10
• Esplanade: see=17, do=4, buy=14
• Maidan: see=10, do=5
• New Town: see+do=17, buy=4
• Northern Suburbs: see+do=17, buy=4
• North Kolkata: see=15, do=4, buy=4
• South Kolkata: see=18, do=9, buy=10
• Southern Suburbs: see=8, do=4, buy=6

Note that I have not considered eat, drink, and sleep listings, as their number can get increased soon. The only change from the current district breakdown is that Baranagar and Dakshineswar, Dum Dum (except Lake Town), and parts of North Kolkata will get merged into "Northern Suburbs". The original "northern fringes of Kolkata" district included that area, with an undefined upper bound, potentially covering the entire suburban area north of Kolkata. This is problematic, as not all such northern suburbs call themselves as parts (or suburbs) of Kolkata and suburbs with identities distinct from Kolkata are covered in separate articles. The upper bound of the new district will be the same as the upper bounds of "Baranagar and Dakshineswar" and "Dum Dum" districts. Lake Town will be covered under East Kolkata instead of the Northern Suburbs, as its handful of attractions are usually accessed from East Kolkata rather than from more northern areas. I'll implement the above proposal within two weeks, and feel free to leave any doubts regarding this proposal. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:42, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply