|
Formatting and language conventions
Please show prices in this format: RM100 and not MYR 100, 100 ringgit or M$100. Please use British spelling (colour, travelled, centre, realise, analogue, programme, defence). Phone numbers should be formatted as +60-X-XXXX XXXX. |
|
Archives
|
Antisemitism =/= Anti-Israel sentiment
[edit]In the section on respect, it states that "Antisemitism is strong within the ethnic Malay and Muslim communities". It clarifies this by saying "Malaysia is one of several countries that do not recognize Israel, and Malaysian Muslims are ardent in their support for Palestine. However, these feelings do not necessarily extend to individual Jewish people, and violence against Jewish visitors is unlikely". This is not antisemitism, this is just anti-Israel sentiment. "Jewish" and "Israeli" are not synonyms. Judaism is an ethno-religion dating back thousands of years. The state of Israel is a country established in 1948, and is as fallible and open to critique for its actions as any other country on earth. The Israeli government does not represent or speak for all Jews, and conflating dislike of Israel with a hatred of Jewish people as a whole is offensive and dangerous.
It seems heavily wrong to slander ethnic Malays and Muslims as ardent antisemites but then state they are not attacking people for being Jewish, and it definitely shows the author's biases. It would be better to reword this to say "anti-Israel sentiments are strong within the ethnic Malay and Muslim communities" instead, which would be far more accurate and neutral in tone. 2A00:23C7:93A9:EC01:49E2:3A91:5E2A:EA91 21:45, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
- I'm a Jew who used to live in Malaysia. I rarely felt unsafe there, but it's certainly not inaccurate to say there has been anti-Jewish and not merely anti-Israeli feeling there. Read some of Dr. Mahathir's remarks about Jews as an example. However, there has also traditionally been bigotry by members of all communities (races/bangsa in Malaysian terms) against the others and their own group; a scholarly book on Race and Politics in Peninsular Malaysia that came out in the 1970s (admittedly 2 generations ago) showed opinion poll results that demonstrated majority beliefs in various stereotypes against the other communities and their own. This may have changed some (I think it probably has), but the presence of prejudice is not necessarily associated with violence, and something that helped me a lot is that I speak fluent Malay when in practice, so while people may have frowned when I said I was an American or a Jew, they tended to relax while hearing me speak with my Terengganu accent. I agree that Jews and Israel should not be conflated, but many people do conflate them, very much including Muslims, and the historical sympathy and identification of most Malays with the Palestinians has not been based only on religion but also on a feeling by some of them that "but for the grace of God, there go us" - in other words, they could have lost Tanah Melayu to non-Malays based on actions by the British, just as the Palestinians lost Tanah Arab. I was the one who added that violence against Jewish visitors is unlikely, and I think that's still true because I probably would have heard about it, but while I'd be happy for you to suggest a rephrasing, I don't think it's wrong to inform Jewish prospective visitors who might not speak Malay or have lived in a Malay kampung that they might face some animosity, but are unlikely to be physically attacked. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:10, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- That sounds more balanced. If it's likely that Jewish visitors will encounter at the very least some antisemitic prejudices then 100%, it's correct to inform them about that. My issue here is that the wording came across as "they're antisemitic because they dislike Israel", which makes about as much sense as claiming someone is islamophobic because they're concerned about a muslim country's human rights record.
- I think what might be best is separating it into something like "antisemitic prejudices are common, but violence is unlikely. As well as this, anti-israeli sentiments are also extremely widespread...". That would keep the two issues as two distinct things while still keeping them together (obviously there's some relation, as some anti-israeli prejudice absolutely is rooted in plain old antisemitism, just not all of it- the two issues just shouldn't be treated as synonymous, essentially). 51.52.166.58 10:40, 21 February 2025 (UTC)
- Right. I'll probably try to work on the phrasing later, but I'd be even happier if someone else would take the lead in doing so. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:38, 21 February 2025 (UTC)