User talk:(WV-en) Eco84 Voyage Tips and guide

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Hi, Eco. Why did you create Henrietta (New York)? I've been putting most Henrietta content into Rochester (New York) because the distinction is not particularly relevant to most visitors and northern Henrietta has Rochester ZIP Codes. I'm also curious where you got the idea that Henrietta contains any villages at all; it does not. LtPowers (talk) 22:59, 12 October 2012 (CEST)

And while I'm at it, why did you create Victor (New York) instead of just Victor? LtPowers (talk) 23:00, 12 October 2012 (CEST)

Eco appears to be tweaking the routeboxes. He recently replaced Rochester with Batavia as the next destination city east of Clarence on I-90 (this was the first edit to the Clarence article by anyone other than me in well over a year), and Grand Island was inserted between Buffalo and Niagara Falls, NY on I-190. This information is not incorrect, btw. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 07:15, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

Indeed, I'm glad to see some of the articles getting created, though I'm not sure empty articles like Henrietta (New York) are worth it. But the article titles appear to be unnecessarily disambiguated in some cases, and I still have concerns about where Henrietta fits into the regional breakdown. LtPowers (talk) 17:15, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

I noticed a previous edit [1] on the Clarence article by you, LtPowers (or your WT-en doppelganger) whose edit summary was, "Syracuse is not a control city along I-90". Of course, the Thruway passes through Syracuse's suburbs without entering the city proper, but then again the same is true of Rochester and Buffalo (and, for that matter, Clarence too), and all of those are on the I-90 routebox. So, is there some sort of protocol for determining which cities are placed in the routeboxes? If so, what is it? And do Eco's changes need to be reverted? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:16, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

The official control cities for I-90 in New York State are Cleveland, Buffalo, Albany, and Boston. Those are the cities you see on overhead signs approaching the Thruway, and the cities you see after passing through the toll barrier (e.g., "East 90 - Albany" and "West 90 - Buffalo"). One could make an argument for adding Syracuse and Rochester as "major" destinations for routebox purposes, but in general we've stuck to the Interstate system's official control cities. LtPowers (talk) 01:19, 14 October 2012 (CEST)

wikipedia:Henrietta,_New_York#Communities_and_locations_in_Henrietta makes it sound like the town contains two villages; are these not actually recognized in practice? If Henrietta isn't notable enough for its own article that's fine, but should I-90 be shown as going through Rochester then? Going with the disambiguator for Victor was probably a misjudgment on my part; I saw the list of places named Victor on Wikipedia and went with "Victor (New York)" to avoid disambiguation issues in the future. Looking at the articles for all the towns, I can see that they are all pretty tiny except for the one in New York state. (WV-en) Eco84 (talk) 23:09, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

As far as New York State is concerned, "village" is a word with a very strict definition: villages are incorporated municipalities - with specific boundaries, functioning governments, etc. - which have not been granted city status, and which unlike cities are still considered part of the town ("towns" in New York are analogous to "townships" in other states) in which they are located. According to the strict definition above, it's not correct to refer to West Henrietta and East Henrietta as villages. As far as I can tell, they are hamlets - which are unincorporated, whose exact boundaries are open to local interpretation, etc. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:44, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

wikipedia:Administrative_divisions_of_New_York if you really want to go into the nitty-gritty technical details. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:08, 14 October 2012 (CEST)

The Wikipedia article does state that E. and W. Henrietta were once villages, but that's the first I've heard of it. If they ever were incorporated, they haven't been for almost two centuries; the Wikipedia article is a bit misleading on that point. Thanks for clarifying where you got the info. =)

I've considered running the Thruway routebox sequence through Rochester, but it doesn't really do a good job of representing the true geography of the situation. If you're headed to Rochester proper from the Thruway, you need to get on 490. The Thruway passes very close to the southern edge of the Rochester ZIP Codes, so it's a little misleading to indicate that it goes through Rochester. But I also hadn't yet decided how best to divide up the southern suburbs, which are very rural south of the Thruway. It's tricky, but I feel strongly that it needs to be driven by the available content, not by the needs of the routebox system. I'd appreciate input on the best way to handle Henrietta and Rush in our travel guides. LtPowers (talk) 01:19, 14 October 2012 (CEST)

A response to both your most recent comments:

For a long time, the I-90 routebox on the Buffalo page included "Rochester (via I-490)". I thought that was likely the best possible compromise, taking into account both geography and the needs of the reader (who would be far more likely to be interested in Rochester as a destination than Henrietta). By the same token, "Syracuse (via I-690)" would be a similarly agreeable middle ground.

Finally, I don't think it's necessary at all for our routeboxes to strictly follow the Interstate Highway System's designation of control cities. To claim that there are no sizable cities or worthwhile destinations along I-90 between Buffalo and Albany (as only one possible example) is blatantly untrue, and frankly, a disservice to our readers.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:29, 14 October 2012 (CEST)

Well, it's important to note that the "major" versus "minor" distinction is primarily for ease of (page) navigation, not a reflection of the worth of any destination along the way. There's not a lot to recommend Albany as a tourist destination, for instance, but it is a major highway crossroads and thus should be a Major destination in our routeboxes. It's more of an art than a science. LtPowers (talk) 02:23, 14 October 2012 (CEST)