Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub Voyage Tips and guide

Welcome to the pub

Shortcuts:
WV:Pub
WV:TP

Contents

The travellers' pub is for general discussion on Wikivoyage, and the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. To start a new topic, click the "Add topic" tab, so that it gets added at the bottom of the page, and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~)

Before asking a question or making a comment:

• Have a look at our Help, FAQ and Policies pages.
• If you are a new user and you have any questions about using the website, try the Arrivals lounge.
• If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, use the article's talk page to keep the discussion associated with that article.
• If you'd like to draw attention to a comment to get feedback from other Wikivoyagers, try Requests for comment.
• If you are wanting travel advice on a specific matter see the tourist office.
• If you have an issue you need to bring to the attention of an administrator, try Ongoing vandalism.
• If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the MediaWiki software, please post that on Phabricator instead.
• If you want to celebrate a significant contribution to Wikivoyage by yourself or others, hold a party at Celebrate a contribution.
• Discuss issues related to more than one language version of Wikivoyage in the Wikivoyage Lounge on Meta.
• Anything that is Nigeria-related is now meant to go in the Nigeria café instead. Anything that is Kosovo or Albania related is now meant to go in the Kosovo and Albania café instead. This includes announcements, initiatives, celebrations, and issues with certain articles.

You can review old Pub discussions in the Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub/Archives.

Pull up a chair and join in the conversation!

Click here to start a new thread

(Apologies for posting in English)

Hello everyone, I am excited to share news of an upcoming online event called Wikidata and Sister Projects celebrating the different ways Wikidata can be used to support or enhance with another Wikimedia project. The event takes place over 4 days between May 29 - June 1st, 2025.

We would like to invite speakers to present at this community event, to hear success stories, challenges, showcase tools or projects you may be working on, where Wikidata has been involved in Wikipedia, Commons, WikiSource and all other WM projects.

If you are interested in attending, please register here. If you would like to speak at the event, please fill out this Session Proposal template on the event talk page, where you can also ask any questions you may have.

I hope to see you at the event, in the audience or as a speaker, - MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:18, 11 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Why do we have both MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning-telstra and MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning-telstra-not-declined? Codename Noreste (talk) 15:02, 12 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I would welcome other views on how to proceed here. There is a discussion about whether this article should have subregions or not. One user has restored a bunch of subregion articles that do not follow Wikivoyage style (twice) without discussing it on the talk page. Ground Zero (talk) 10:52, 13 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

In particular, this user is adding long lists for cities and towns for which we do not have articles, creating red links. Do we have a policy on this? Ground Zero (talk) 11:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

The user ignored my requests and warning on their talk page, has continued to add more redlinked cities to Noth Brabant and the subregion articles, while not participating in the discussion. I have blocked them for two hours to try to get their attention. See User talk:KeesNB1969NL. Ground Zero (talk) 11:09, 13 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Biggest myths about studying overseas busted by Reddit user: Why do Indian students struggle after moving abroad?. Relevant to our coverage on studying abroad. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 13:39, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Sbb1413: I get a 404 error when I click that link – I assume it only works within India? //shb (t | c | m) 14:07, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000: Sorry for the wrong link, here's the correct one. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:30, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Perfect, that works; I'll give it a read sometime later today. //shb (t | c | m) 14:36, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Perhaps, but I think the article says little. It doesn't answer the question in the heading, it doesn't even try.

It says that a visa is not a lottery ticket, that you need to do your research on the job market (and presumably costs, studies etc.), that you need to study in earnest, not just get an exam, and so on. In short: a visa and admission to a university don't necessarily give you a high-pay career.

We could give a warning in a sentence or two, but mostly this is common sense, at the abstraction level given in the article.

–LPfi (talk) 19:38, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Where do people think is a good place to put this information? I think this will be useful for people to know just in case they need legal documents to be notarized and sent back to their home countries while travelling abroad. Your country's embassy can provide this, but if I'm not wrong, you can look for a notary public if your country has no diplomatic post. And Commonwealth countries have what we call a "justice of the peace" who can notarise some documents for domestic use. The dog2 (talk) 18:48, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

How likely is it that a traveller needs a notary? I expect the likelihood of needing one depends on your home country - what documents need it. Although I occasionally need to get my signature witnessed, I have been able to ask anybody that knows me to do this; I don't think I have ever had to get a document notarized. There are also probably loads of complexities about foreign notaries being accepted in your home country. In general, I would suggest phoning the nearest consulate and asking advice. I think that notary services are not something we need to list, but if there is some local quirk to be aware of, then it should go in the country's cope section. AlasdairW (talk) 20:35, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, my answer is "nowhere." User:The dog2, as a U.S. citizen, I have to get a document notarized at most once every 10 years on average, yet you think we should yet again increase the length of the United States article by adding information of notarization. Could you please stop and have some self-control?! Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:01, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I too think this is incredibly niche to mention. //shb (t | c | m) 23:14, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

+1. Ground Zero (talk) 00:14, 17 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Here's a fun fact about notaries in California: The Spanish cognate, notario, is an important type of legal specialist. Having your will drafted by a (Mexican) notario is a very good thing. But in California, a notary public is basically a secretary who took a six-hour class and passed a multiple-choice test. As a result, California no longer allows people to get their wills notarized (it's banned, not merely non-required), because so many immigrants thought that they were paying for a really valuable legal service, and the family got nasty surprises after their loved ones died.

On the general question: I don't think this is a useful thing to add. It's rarely needed while traveling, and if you do need it, you probably need specialized advice. For example, if you need a notarized signature for home-country real estate purposes while you're abroad, then you need to find, in your current location, a notary service that will be acceptable to your home country. But if you're updating your will during a long stay, you need someone that will be acceptable to both your home country and your current country. Providing a recommendation might encourage people to do something that doesn't actually work. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:15, 17 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Possibly it could be added to Working in the United States. If somebody is in the US for a year or three, it is much more likely that they will need a document notarized to be accepted in the US, and so the difficult question of foreign acceptance is avoided. Also the Working in article is only 13k, and needs expansion in other areas. AlasdairW (talk) 20:53, 17 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Also, if you are living abroad but you still have assets back home, you might need notarial services for things like delegating a power of attorney to a family member back home. The dog2 (talk) 20:55, 17 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Would you? If so, though, that's not specifically about working or studying abroad. I'd like some comments from fellow workers (i.e.,

not members of the leisure class or people who are purely business owners) in the U.S. on whether they've needed to have anything notarized for work. I don't ever recall doing that. I believe the last time I had to have a document notarized was in connection with opening a corporate bank account, so I'd argue that if we decide to cover notarization in the U.S. at all, it should be in a "doing business in the U.S." article, but I still doubt its inclusion would be necessary, and I hope no-one wants to start that article right now, with all the totally unnecessary, manufactured chaos that our "dear leader" is producing. Maybe "avoiding trade with the U.S." would be a more useful article...(but it's not about travel). Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:15, 17 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Never for work, though if you work in real estate or some other legal-adjacent field, you might visit a notary frequently.

I have needed to have documents notarized a few times. A durable power of attorney might have been one of them. However, in California, I believe that having two witnesses for the power of attorney is also acceptable, so it might have been something else. It's been more than a decade since I needed a notary. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

(edit conflict) You could be living abroad for work. But anyway, I was thinking more of notarization in general rather than in the U.S. specifically. There is the Hague Convention of 1961, and signatory countries will generally grant legal recognition to documents notarised and apostilled by another signatory country, with a few exceptions (e.g. India does not legally recognise documents notarised and apostilled by China). The dog2 (talk) 21:53, 17 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

If you work in real estate, you probably wouldn't be reading Wikivoyage for this kind of advice anyway. //shb (t | c | m) 23:53, 17 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

This discussion has demonstrated convincingly that the use of notaries is such a rare and exceptional occurence that notary services should never have been stuck into a country-level article. The attempt to do so shows a lack of understanding of what Wikivoyage is trying to do, or a disregard for the project's objectives, especially when it is a pattern of behaviour. Ground Zero (talk) 01:58, 18 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I agree it's very unusual for a traveller to need notary services on the road. However, I think a brief discussion of apostille certificates might be reasonable in a general article such as Visa, Working abroad, or Living abroad. I've needed an apostille twice in the process of applying for work visas. I don't see a case for mentioning this anywhere outside of the context of visa application processes, though. Issues like delegating a power of attorney are not really travel advice, but drifting into the realm of general life advice. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:37, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

There is a discussion in Wikivoyage talk:Don't tout#When should promotional user pages be deleted?.

It seems that we have a practice of speedy deleting user pages of touts, which isn't documented is Wikivoyage:Deletion policy#Speedy deletions. I assume that means that the policy should be amended. The question is whether any user page with promotional content can be speedily deleted at sight, or whether there needs to be some consideration of the specifics of the user page content or the user's contributions. If there is admin discretion involved, we should probably have some guidance.

At the moment, the discussion is about whether preserving a user page can be required for attribution purposes, or whether attributing the username itself suffices legally (in cases where the user's contributions are copyrightable, and we thus need to respect the licence).

Other issues should also be discussed.

Please share your insights and opinions in the linked thread.

–LPfi (talk) 08:26, 18 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Some articles or sections on food don't include any advice for vegetarians, such as Spanish cuisine, Russia, and Brazil. This would reduce discouragement from vegetarian travel to these countries since they don't have any specialized advice. The template should look like:

This article or section does not provide advice for vegetarians. You can add advice for vegetarians based on personal experience, or by using information from the corresponding article on Wikipedia.

Categories: Articles needing advice for vegetarians

Faster than Thunder (talk) 00:16, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't see how adding more tags will help for what would otherwise be a niche problem. //shb (t | c | m) 00:27, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

experience in Wikivoyage has been that these sort of templates tend not to achieve very much of anything, except to add clutter to an article. Wikivoyage doesn't have the large contributor base of Wikipedia, unfortunately, where a template like this would be so effective way of addressing gaps in coverage. Any contributions you could make by adding listings for vegetarian restaurants would be very welcome, and would achieve much more than a template noting that we don't have such listings. Ground Zero (talk) 01:03, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

This template would make it easier to find others interested in such improvements, even among the sheer contributor base of Wikivoyage. This would be more effective if categorization is attached to the template. Faster than Thunder (talk) 03:46, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

And past style tags that do exactly as you propose have proven to not work as you suggest on this site before. //shb (t | c | m) 03:50, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

This template could be added to almost every Wikivoyage article. We have a way to find others interested in making a type of improvements: create a Wikivoyage:Expeditions. Adding templates is not how you find others interested in such improvements. Ground Zero (talk) 03:52, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'm your target audience, as someone who hesitates to add vegetarian-specific content because I consider my dietary preferences to be niche.

I agree that this template is not worth the visual clutter. I wonder if there's instead a way to leverage the Travel as a vegetarian article, both to highlight the cuisine articles with useful content, and to somehow call attention to articles that are missing the opportunity? Gerode (talk) 04:12, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Gerode, that's a good idea, but it's also helpful to have information in the more specific articles. I'd rather have both/and instead of either/or.

IMO it would be nice to have a little bit of information for a variety of "niche" diets. That could include vegetarian, vegan, gluten-free, low-carb, diabetic, etc. Perhaps if it feels weird to add a paragraph about vegetarian food, it'd feel less weird if you add a couple of lines about another dietary pattern. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:16, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Gerode: I see nothing at all wrong with adding information about restricted diets in destination articles. We provide information for women travellers, people with disabilities, LGBT people, why not vegetarians and other restricted diets? It would only be an improvement yo our travel guide. Ground Zero (talk) 11:06, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I couldn't agree more with this. And the point isn't whether vegetarianism is mainstream in most Western countries - it is - but that information useful to vegetarians is good to include, and for that matter can often be useful for non-vegetarians who want to eat more vegetables, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:08, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

…Or want to experience a different kind of meal – as good a variation as going to the Nepalese or Georgian restaurant, if the vegetarian restaurant is good. Also in mainstream restaurants, the vegetarian options can be as good as the non-vegetarian ones in their price range. At cafeterias, the vegan/vegetarian options are on occasion more tempting than the non-vegetarian dishes of the day. –LPfi (talk) 15:25, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

@WhatamIdoing, Gerode, Ground Zero: Maybe this won't be as nearly as bad of an idea as when I first thought of it a while ago, but is there any interest in creating an expedition specifically for improving everything related to food and drink on this site (more than just vegetarianism)? I'd be down for it if there's general interest. //shb (t | c | m) 05:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I didn't say vegetarianism is niche, I said the way I like to eat is niche 😛 Enough so that I don't find individual Eat listings to be useful for me personally for most destinations, even ones with high-quality articles. I need to ponder what a delightful-for-me wiki-based food and drink experience would look like. (And in the meantime, be bolder about adding places near my home that I like!) Gerode (talk) 18:00, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

SHB, I don't know what tends to result in a successful expedition. If we decide to create one, then maybe a note at w:en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink would find some new contributors. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:26, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Good idea – and would be a great way to get some contributors over from Wikipedia. //shb (t | c | m) 22:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Faster than Thunder: Whatever said by Ground Zero and SHB2000 are unfortunately true. Wikivoyage does not have the workforce equivalent to Wikipedia (although the English version is way more active than some Indian-language versions), and that's why I discourage users adding such templates. I remember adding a {{movetodistrict}} template at the Drink section of Kolkata years ago, but I moved those listings to districts only recently. If the vegetarian issue seems pressing, I suggest starting a discussion at the talk page of the affected article. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 04:01, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Really, the best solution is just to add vegetarian listings yourself when you see that they are lacking. Even if you don't know the city in question yourself, it's better than nothing to look up eateries in any halfway reliable source you have and put descriptions in your own words. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:30, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Though in the case of cuisine articles, bringing up a lack of vegetable dishes on the talk page could be appropriate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:31, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I definitely agree and is a very good point you bring up regarding cuisine articles. //shb (t | c | m) 04:36, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Templates requesting editor action are only useful if it is a five minute task which can be done without knowing the article subject. For example crop when a banner is the wrong dimensions, or Dead link. In the case of Spanish cuisine, the template would not be useful as the corresponding Wikipeda article doesn't have a vegetarian or vegan section. If you can find some information on vegetarian dishes in restaurants in Spain, it would be better to start a section with the limited info that you have (and even if you check many menus and find no vegetarian dishes then saying the options are poor is a start). AlasdairW (talk) 12:29, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Vegetarian is certainly not niche, in developed western countries it's a mainstream offering in most outlets, so much that I wouldn't even mention it in a listing. Any half-competent chef can serve veggies on request, especially with cuisines where meat is an add-on rather than the basis. East Europe is evolving fast as they see what westerner visitors expect. Any attempt to specially flag such places will sink under the clutter of flags. Vegan and GF are rapidly expanding from a lower starting point so I'd always mention this if either the restaurant website or customer reviews did so, but give it a few more years, that might no longer be necessary. Grahamsands (talk) 13:09, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Any Western half-competent chef can serve veggies, but whether they can fix a culinary experience with what they have at hand is not as sure. If I have vegan guests, or even vegetarian ones, here in Turku (200,000 inhabitants), the restaurants where I'd take them for a nicer lunch or dinner can be counted on one hand's fingers. In other restaurants the vegetarian options are not among the flagship ones. Off the beaten path the vegetarian options may be quite mediocre, and you can find the odd place where there is no vegetarian choice at all ("a hamburger without the beef, please").

Ergo, for Western countries like Finland, I would still try to list vegetarian restaurants in any city article, and describe the general situation in the country article (Travel as a vegetarian#In the West shows that such summaries are needed).

–LPfi (talk) 15:14, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

The "cuisine" articles linked seem to be about introducing people to a specific kind of national or ethnic cuisine (Spanish cuisine, Russian cuisine, etc) as an overview (without restaurants), so I'm not sure those are the proper articles for this information since the vegetarian options may lie outside of the traditional cuisine, but the country articles should definitely say something about it. And restaurant listings can obviously say if a place is vegetarian/vegan or if it has enough variety of options to make it worth noting. But it's really up to editors to add that information if they are aware. I agree with others that it's too niche to be worth having its own box demanding special focus from editors. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 15:41, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Still, they may be watched by people who are knowledgable of the cuisine scene in the related region, so their talk page may be a good venue for a discussion. Also, most cuisines have some mainly vegetarian dishes, which could be made vegetarian by minor tweaks. I think a Cope section, like Finnish cuisine#Dietary restrictions would suit most cuisine articles. Often the cuisine is found in a region sharing other features, such that specific other options (such as going to a Buddhist restaurant) may be relevant. One can also point out in passing that a dish may be a good option for those with certain diets, or issues with a seemingly suitable dish (such as fish sauce in Vietnam). I agree that the country articles should say something about these issues (also about halal/kosher and other common diets). –LPfi (talk) 08:01, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

The coming days/weeks things for parts of Rome and/or The Vatican might be different from usual. The death of the Pope will have consequences for the Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel, and also for the Santa Maria Maggiore church.

• Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel could be closed at certain days. During the election of a new Pope the museums could be opened, but the Sistine Chapel will be closed. What happens with tickets ordered and paid for online?
• Santa Maria Maggiore might be closed for preparations for creating the gave for the Pope. After the burial it might become very busy with very long queues of waiting people.

Do we provide info to the travelers for the coming days/weeks? FredTC (talk) 14:48, 22 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Absolutely. Please go ahead and provide that information, and thank you! Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:51, 22 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

@FredTC, you might want to use Template:Cautionbox. It takes a date, which will make it easier to find and remove that information in the future. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:41, 22 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

The latest versions of Gemini can now create Wikivoyage listings with a very simple prompt. here's an example where everything is factually correct (no hallucinations!), and everything except the price range and opening hours was correctly formatted on the first try. I tweaked the prompt a bit and it did better on those too.

I'm not sure I want to encourage people to do this, but whether we like it or not, the technology is now here. Jpatokal (talk) 07:28, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Very interesting; amazing how far AI has come (I also have mixed feelings, but it does mean that we could use Gemini to format things for us). //shb (t | c | m) 07:59, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

What's important to me is that the content is good.

I would worry more about trying to write whole articles. I worry less about tools to organize a description of a place you've already hand-selected. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:37, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I just used Gemini to validate that a whole bunch of Kraków/Old Town listings still exist and add latlongs. It nailed the job with this prompt: "check if these hotels still exist. if yes, add latlongs to the listing. if no, delete the listing. return results as a code block, with a list of deleted entries at the end." Jpatokal (talk) 06:53, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Naive (literally ignorant) question: How do you know the results are accurate? -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:54, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

You'd have to manually double check (that's at least been my prior experience using Gemini). //shb (t | c | m) 07:17, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

The newer versions of Gemini are capable calling external services to genocide addresses. AFAICT all the locations are accurate. Jpatokal (talk) 22:41, 29 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

At the very least, please verify all of it yourself before adding any of it to Wikivoyage. It would be very unfortunate to hurt the accuracy of our articles with AI hallucinations. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:19, 30 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Indeed, I just spot-checked four of the sets of coordinates you added and all four appear to be wrong. Therefore, I've reverted the edits. In the future, please check the accuracy yourself, to avoid adding AI misinformation to articles. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:26, 30 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I used ChatGPT to create initial drafts for Aklavik and Fort McPherson, and then modify them locally before submitting first save. ChatGPT definitely knows our article skeleton structure and create contents in this structure in the correct order. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 13:58, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Forgetting about AI for a second: SingyeDzong asked me where the buttons are to add blank listing templates in articles from an iPhone. I checked several articles and couldn't find an easy way to do this (I was thinking I'd have to resort to copying an existing templated listing and then changing all the contents of every tab, which would be a huge pain!). Why is there no "Add a listing" button in sections of articles in Wikivoyage mobile, and what can be done to make this process a lot simpler? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:01, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

You can see the absence of the links by clicking this link: https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Pella_(Iowa)?useskin=minerva There is no [add listing] button, and there are no little edit buttons at the end of each listing. The listing editor doesn't appear to load at all in that skin. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:43, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Seems the listing editor only works on Vector? //shb (t | c | m) 23:56, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Seems to be the other way around, rather. Line 28 in MediaWiki:Gadget-ListingEditor.js explicitly forbids the extension from running on Minerva. That line was added following this discussion from almost two years ago.
― Wauteurz (talk) 00:21, 24 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

We really need to improve the mobile experience. We should assume substantial number of our readers and editors to be reading or editing while on the road. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 13:34, 24 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I am a bit confused as I added the listing editing on mobile beta a few months ago and was waiting for feedback which I never got.

I see it on https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Ikoma for example when I expand a section. It appears as an icon next to the edit link.

If the beta one looks good then with at least 2-3 people's support I can turn it on. Jdlrobson (talk) 15:55, 24 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

screenshot: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F59381242 Jdlrobson (talk) 15:57, 24 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

This looks promising. Does it only show the item that you click on the edit button on mobile? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 14:04, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

[edit conflict]

There is a really simple cause why the listing editor is not available for mobile versions: it uses the jQuery library jquery.ui which provides the dialog-elements support which is not available on mobile devices (better: on Minerva skins). Of course you can change the skin on mobile devices but this would not be a real helpful tool on mobile devices.

For my opinion, their is no simple replacement the jQuery library. The tool has to be reprogrammed from scratch which would be a comprehensive project, and I do not know who should do it. When the old tool was created there was no alternative like OOjs which is, moreover, more difficult to use than jQuery.ui. --RolandUnger (talk) 16:07, 24 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

See w:en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Recreation in Huntington, West Virginia. This is about an article, w:en:Recreation in Huntington, West Virginia that might be more useful if transwiki'd here and merged into Huntington (West Virginia) than if it is left there.

(NB: If you copy/paste or transwiki anything (e.g., one or more sentences) out of that article, please say so at the AFD. Just a quick heads-up or a link to a diff would be helpful to them.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Wondering if any WikiVoyage folks are planning to attend Wikimania? And is anyone planning on traveling about the region afterwards? I was thinking of heading towards Urganda, Rwanda, and Burundi plus maybe Virunga National Park, but the last bit appears a bit unstable right now. Travel Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:58, 26 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

This year's is in Nairobi, Kenya from 6–9 August 2025. There will be some virtual activities for those who can't be there.

We should look into updating the relevant articles. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:46, 26 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I will take part online. --RolandUnger (talk) 05:08, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Me too, but no submission this year. And due to work i can only attend online on Saturday. -- DerFussi 05:33, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

There are various problems with this article that I address in the Talk:Aguacate Mountains Biological Corridor#What to do with this article, but one I'd like some opinions about is the article title itself. I deleted a paragraph-long ref-tagged definition of the term "biological corridor" in this edit, and my position is that the phrase is not used in vernacular English and therefore violates Wikivoyage:Naming conventions, and also that if English-speakers require a long definition to understand what it means, it's the wrong phrase.

Would any of you disagree with renaming the article "Aguacate Mountains Nature Preserve"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:49, 27 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I am not sure that we should use a translation of our own for the page name – the name most commonly used in English may indeed be the native one. If we make up our own name, it should probably be a descriptive one, not pretending to be a proper name. There may even be some legal difference between nature preserves and corredores biológicos in Costa Rica.

We should indeed not have definitions like the one you removed in our articles. Nonetheless, we should mention the English term (perhaps green corridor is the handiest) and explain it in short.

–LPfi (talk) 11:38, 27 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

But does "green corridor" really have the same meaning? Also, a simple way to avoid the issue of whether a translation is official or not is to simply use lowercase: "Aguacate Mountains wildlife preserve" (or whatever). But being concerned about legal names is highly un-Wikivoyage. We have no articles about the Republic of Korea, the Democratic Republic of Korea, the Arab Republic of Egypt or most of the other official country names, and we expressly avoid debates on whether or where there are de jure borders. Instead, we have Wikivoyage:Naming conventions and Wikivoyage:Be fair#Political disputes. So I suggest banishing legal definitions from this discussion. Having said that, isn't the park we're discussing quite big and not just a little green corridor like the one depicted in the Wikipedia article you linked? Is there anyplace in an English-speaking country called "X Green Corridor" or "Y Wildlife Corridor" that passes Wikivoyage:What is an article? I doubt it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:39, 27 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I intended to suggest using the lower case. We don't need to think to hard about legalese, but using a misleading term isn't good.

The article I linked and w:es:Corredor ecológico linked from there suggest that corredor biológico indeed is synonymous to green corridor. For large such corridors, see Barakee National Park, which is described as such, citing an authoritative English source (I think I rescued the article because of a discussion here, but cannot recall details). That park is smaller, but not by magnitudes.

Depending on species, corridors like those shown in the Wikipedia articles may suffice, but some cautious ones might need corridors of significant width, like these parks. If the distance is long (in relation to the species), the species need to be able not only to move along the corridor, but to live and thrive there, to allow the next generation to spread further along it. Of course, the parks may also have other functions, even when founded mainly as green corridors. I assume the images were chosen partly to show the corridor aspect clearly.

–LPfi (talk) 22:02, 27 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I would object to any translation or invented term. The article as-is has the official name. The term "biological corridor" is what is used in Costa Rica, and if you search on the name, you'll find references to the official SINAC page describing biological corridors here: https://www.sinac.go.cr/EN-US/CORREBIOLO/Pages/default.aspx

As you can see in that article's map, there are more than 40 biological corridors in Costa Rica. Whether '''ANY''' of them deserve an article is a worthwhile question since these aren't destinations intended to be tourist attractions. In fact, the ethical traveler will stay FAR from the biologial corridors, which were established for wildlife to move between protected areas. When humans invade those corridors they scare away the animals, some of which may well end up in a far worse conservation status than if the travelers had stuck to the national parks and areas that provide good tourist infrastructure. (I have the same complaint about including Biosphere Reserves or Ramsar sites, and we do indeed have articles on those).

As another matter, I suggest merging Aguacate Mountains and El Camino del Cielo y Colibríes into this article since they are all of fairly low traveler value and all 3 articles describe the same area with slightly different spins and details.

Comments? Mrkstvns (talk) 18:09, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

The discussion is now forked. I think I mistakenly answered your question in Talk:Aguacate Mountains Biological Corridor#What to do with this article. Anyway, I am not sure that we should avoid articles on such corridors, Ramsar sites and nature reserves in general, in the cases where there is sustainable tourism and visitor infrastructure sanctioned by the responsible organisations (and informed parties seem not to criticise these too heavily).

Often income from visitors is key in keeping the locals positive to the preservation efforts, and thus to their success, and harm can be kept to a minimum by directing visitors toward less sensible parts of the area (such as having a birdwatching tower at respectful distance). In this case, there are roads through the area, and some more traffic, by visitors, may not significantly increase their impact. The SINAC does refer to a programme of sustainable tourism.

Tourism to sites of ecological value has a positive educational effect, as long as it is arranged in sustainable way. What sites to recommend differs between regions, and some of them may happen to be in a nature reserve or at a Ramsar site – or in a large green corridor as in this case. Lists of UNESCO Biosphere Reserves and Ramsar sites are available on the net, and also us having them probably isn't bad, at least if we add information on whether visits should be avoided. We might want to link to destination articles for some of the sites, while adding a note on "no tourist infrastructure – visits not recommended" on the rest.

–LPfi (talk) 09:58, 30 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

"No visits recommended because of lack of tourism infrastructure" is very different from "Responsible tourists should consider steering clear of this area to avoid causing environmental damage," but the latter sounds preachy and would be very likely to be deleted as not in an appropriate tone for Wikivoyage, so a wider discussion may be needed on Wikivoyage talk:Tone. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:04, 30 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes. I tried not to preach, but there might be better wordings conveying the intended meaning more clearly without preaching. Linking "visits not recommended" (or whatever we come up with) to Sustainable travel could perhaps make our view clear (we should add a mention of this issue somewhere near the top of the article). –LPfi (talk) 20:53, 1 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

The voting period for the revisions to the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Guidelines and U4C Charter closes on 1 May 2025 at 23:59 UTC (find in your time zone). Read the information on how to participate and read over the proposal before voting on the UCoC page on Meta-wiki.

The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. This annual review was planned and implemented by the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, you may review the U4C Charter.

Please share this message with members of your community in your language, as appropriate, so they can participate as well.

In cooperation with the U4C --

I am pleased announce, thanks to the rockstar that is @Taavi, the Commons Notification Deletion bot is finally back up and running! You should start seeing new talk page notifications soon (for eligible deletion discussions that are started after roughly 15 minutes ago).

Pinging @Ikan Kekek @SHB2000 @WhatamIdoing and @LPfi who have been asking for this for a very long time. I apologize for the two years of downtime. I am making efforts to ensure the bot stays running and something like this won't happen again.

Cheers and happy editing! — MusikAnimal ^talk 09:07, 4 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Awesome – I've been looking forward to this for a very long time and I'm very glad you and Taavi have made it possible! Thanks again. :) //shb (t | c | m) 09:09, 4 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'm really relieved to hear this and look forward to decreasing my participation at c:Commons:Deletion requests. Thank you, and many thanks to Taavi! Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:06, 4 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

This is great news. Thanks for letting us know. Taavi, you're awesome. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

I wanted to do this in the Agadir guide, but I can't see any way to do it. The only possible way seemed to be to compare 2 differences, but when I pressed "undo," it undid only the last of like 4 or 5 edits. This is an absurd situation that makes moderation kind of impractical. Am I missing something obvious, somehow? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:22, 4 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

My only resort seemed to be to revert each edit separately, but that often isn't even possible because a touter has changed the wording. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:30, 4 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

You could try going to the history, opening the last good revision, clicking "Edit" from there, and then saving without making any changes. This technique works on desktop, but I haven't tried it on mobile. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:23, 4 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Try it; then if you can figure out how, let us know. It appears to be impossible. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:02, 5 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

I often begrudgingly use rollback + message on talk page because anything else is just so painful/near-impossible to deal with on Safari (on mobile). I do use an enwiki userscript to restore certain revisions, but this only works on desktop. //shb (t | c | m) 23:26, 4 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'm not convinced that this is how it's meant to work. @Trizek (WMF), have you heard about this problem? WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:08, 5 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

(Apologies for posting in English)

Hi all! We have good news to share regarding the ongoing problem with graphs and charts affecting all wikis that use them.

As you probably know, the old Graph extension was disabled in 2023 due to security reasons. We’ve worked in these two years to find a solution that could replace the old extension, and provide a safer and better solution to users who wanted to showcase graphs and charts in their articles. We therefore developed the Charts extension, which will be replacing the old Graph extension and potentially also the EasyTimeline extension.

After successfully deploying the extension on Italian, Swedish, and Hebrew Wikipedia, as well as on MediaWiki.org, as part of a pilot phase, we are now happy to announce that we are moving forward with the next phase of deployment, which will also include your wiki.

The deployment will happen in batches, and will start from May 6. Please, consult our page on MediaWiki.org to discover when the new Charts extension will be deployed on your wiki. You can also consult the documentation about the extension on MediaWiki.org.

If you have questions, need clarifications, or just want to express your opinion about it, please refer to the project’s talk page on Mediawiki.org, or ping me directly under this thread. If you encounter issues using Charts once it gets enabled on your wiki, please report it on the talk page or at Phabricator.

Thank you in advance! -- User:Sannita (WMF) (talk) 15:07, 6 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Does anyone remember whether we're using any of these? WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:44, 6 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't think we've ever used charts on this site – like, ever. //shb (t | c | m) 22:23, 6 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

@WhatamIdoing, SHB2000: We do have {{Climate}}, but it probably never used the Graph extension. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:35, 7 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks.

@Sannita (WMF), I notice that mw:Extension:Chart/Project#Deployment Timeline only list mw.org and Wikipedias. What's the schedule for the non-Wikipedias? WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:04, 7 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi @WhatamIdoing, thanks for the question. The deployment for non-Wikipedia wikis will happen this week, along with most of the Wikipedias that are not scheduled for the next two weeks. It is up to you if the extension will be useful for your work or not. Sannita (WMF) (talk) 11:19, 7 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

I believe it is useful for making a remastered version of the existing {{Climate}} template. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 11:38, 7 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

@WhatamIdoing and the others: there's a correction to my last message. There's been a change in the schedule yesterday for scaling purposes, so all non-Wikipedia wikis will be addressed after the deployment will be completed on all Wikipedias. This means that all non-Wikipedia wikis will have to wait until the end of the month at least. Sorry for the delay. Sannita (WMF) (talk) 11:06, 8 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yeah I think that just uses some very complex css but never the formal MW extension. //shb (t | c | m) 09:39, 7 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Some of you may have heard of the discovery of account compromises back in March this year – I won't go into too much detail but I've linked the statement from the WMF if you want to learn more about it.

While I cannot say for sure whether it's directly related, from late this month checkusers and oversighters will also need to enable 2FA – so what stands at WV:2FA will still remain. While we don't have any CUs or OSs on this wiki, there is a similar phabricator task open that may in the future disallow bureaucrats from granting interface admin perms to someone who doesn't have 2FA enabled. No timeframe for this has been given, but something worth noting (cc @Ikan Kekek, ThunderingTyphoons!:).

I know in the past that the 2FA system was previously terrible to use (and it did have its issues – also why I didn't enable it until last year), but the WMF has come a long way and now the system doesn't have nearly as many issues as it once did. My point? There's never been a better time to enable 2FA than now, all the more so if you're a sysop, template editor or just a user with a significant edit history on this site. //shb (t | c | m) 04:30, 8 May 2025 (UTC)Reply