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New York Times has an interesting article on guided tours and tourism which exposes less proud views of well-visited cities, such as poverty and political opposition. Can this inspire us? Stockholm environmentalist tour mentions the dilemmas of a city which presents itself as sustainable while expanding a network of six-lane highways. /Yvwv (talk) 02:48, 3 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Some people might find that type of thing interesting. I would add it in with a little message/disclaimer telling the reader what the purpose of the tours are and what to generally expect.

Oak lod (talk) 15:28, 4 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I think we already have some of that, for example our Rio de Janeiro article includes some info on favela tours and we have an entire article about Organized crime tourism. Mrkstvns (talk) 15:20, 6 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Right. I think we should tread carefully on these so-called "anti-tourism tours." I haven't read the article, but at least as far back as the 1920s, rich white people would go "slumming" in Harlem dressed in furs and pearls. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:04, 6 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Let's bring back our cherished traditions! Wikimedia Small Projects is excited to announce the return of Wikivoyage 13, and this time, we've got two fun activities lined up:

• Wikivoyage Asian Month: In collaboration with the Wikipedia Asian Month User Group, we're thrilled to host the second edition of this event. You can find more details at this link.

• Wikivoyage Loves Venezuela: Partnering with Wikimedia Venezuela, we're launching the inaugural edition of this event, focused on creating and enhancing articles about Venezuela. Ends Dec 31.

As always, we'd love to hear from the en.wikivoyage community—are you interested in helping organize Wikivoyage Asian Month, Wikivoyage Loves Venezuela, or maybe even both? Your participation can make these events even more special!

Regards, Lord Ravager (talk) 14:16, 6 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sounds interesting. I don't really want to be an organizer, but I would be happy to participate by adding content related to both Asia and Venezuela. Good luck with the event! Mrkstvns (talk) 15:27, 6 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'm happy to grade the articles for Wikivoyage Asian Month, hopefully using the same criteria as we did last year. //shb (t | c | m) 22:04, 6 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I agree with using last year's envoy criteria. In fact, I would say that the global criteria scoring is overly complicated. I don't think we ever used the points system to determine a "winner". Ultimately, the goal is to improve the content of the project. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 05:10, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I agree – I think while it's nice to have a winner, most people who contribute to WAM do so for the fun of it, not to win the competition. Winning is just a nice added bonus for whoever contributed the most articles. //shb (t | c | m) 05:21, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I’m all in favor of the idea. However, I think we should focus on Asia. Travel to Venezuela is strongly discouraged by governments around the world, and the risk of getting kidnapped as a tourist is high. It’s just not a travel destination given the current crime epidemic there. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 05:54, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I think it's fine to still improve our coverage of Venezuela, even if few people will be actively travelling there at present, but at the very least we should have someone who is hopefully from Venezuela to assess those articles. //shb (t | c | m) 07:18, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sure. But if we want to focus our efforts where they will be the most helpful to tourists, I think Asia is our best bet. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 14:51, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

If this happens on English Wikipedia, please let me know and I'd advertise this to my students. Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 12:19, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hey everyone! I'll break my replies into a few parts:

• Just like last year, each community has the freedom to set its own local standards based on what works best for you. No worries if you prefer not to follow the global criteria!
• Selfie City: We understand the situation in the country is pretty chaotic right now. We're doing this to help bring more Venezuelan content to other Wikimedia projects—eventually, we hope the crisis will be resolved, and sharing useful info about Venezuela isn’t a bad thing at all.
• Hanyangprofessor2: This is the version of Wikipedia Asian Month that's tailored for Wikivoyage. You're more than welcome to join the English Wikipedia edition of Wikipedia Asian Month.
• Since Mérida celebrated Japanese Culture Week, we decided to kick off Wikivoyage Asian Month last week. But hey, if your community wants to start a bit later, that's totally fine—no pressure at all!

Regards, --Lord Ravager (talk) 00:51, 18 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Lord Ravager Thanks, I made an announcement to the students. If there is ever an English (or Chinese) Wikivoyage event like this, please let me know. Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 02:07, 18 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'll create a page for this tomorrow or later tonight, hopefully we can kick it off next week (lots of irl matters this week for me :/). //shb (t | c | m) 00:43, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Hanyangprofessor2 Pretty sure that the English Wikivoyage event will go ahead (I just don't have the time to create the page). The Chinese Wikivoyage event page has already been created but the rules are still pending. Based on what I read, the Chinese edition is reducing the difficulty from every 4000 bytes of improvement for 1 point down to 3500 bytes/point to account for Chinese being a higher information density language. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 01:41, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Seems like a reasonable criteria for zhwikivoyage. //shb (t | c | m) 01:46, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@OhanaUnited, Hanyangprofessor2, Lord Ravager, SelfieCity: Done – see Wikivoyage:Wikivoyage 13. The only thing that hasn't been decided on yet is the start date. I'm personally willing to accept all submissions from tomorrow (so that Piotrus' students can participate) – your thoughts? //shb (t | c | m) 02:59, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'd be happy with that. Piotrus' students do a lot of marvellous work! I know we complain about some of the recurring mistakes, but the amount of excellent, colorful content they add is great! Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:11, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Agreed. Piotrus' student projects tend to be one of the better organised group projects on this site and the outputs, even if they require some cleanup from regulars, is always a net positive. //shb (t | c | m) 03:17, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes! I'd add that I hope to work with a professor to create a similar endeavor for a class he's teaching in the spring. I'll be a guest lecturer to guide the students if it does happen. That project will be focused on the U.S., and particularly Florida. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 03:40, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Good luck with that! Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:03, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000 thanks! I would also like to mention that, in line with what Plotus is doing, we have an educational program focused on eswikivoyage at a school in Mérida, Venezuela. It might be excellent to document these educational initiatives (past, present, and future). Regards, Lord Ravager (talk) 21:03, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Ooh, that's nice to hear. It definitely would be nice to document them for sure (though some seem to be hosted on Meta which might make that tricky). //shb (t | c | m) 21:15, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I’m thinking we could set up a global page for Wikivoyage educational stuff—maybe call it "Wikivoyage Education Program" or something like that. I’ll handle that in the next few days. Also, I’ll work on designing a logo for Wikivoyage’s anniversary since it’s been a while since I’ve done one. Lord Ravager (talk) 21:45, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Make sure to check the instructions for students I have on my user page - I expect they'd be useful for any instructor. I also have an academic paper on teaching on Wikivoyage I hope will get published somewhere (so far it has not been lucky, sigh). Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 12:14, 20 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SelfieCity The above was for you, forgot to ping. Good luck with your class! Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 12:14, 20 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Hanyangprofessor2: Thanks! Sorry, I don't know how I missed this. I've learned a lot about how the process might work, thanks to the work you've done with your students. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 18:52, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thank you; I've announced it for the students. Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 12:12, 20 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

The first new subsea habitat in 40 years is about to launch. Should we cover this, or other such sites? Where? Pashley (talk) 05:55, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

The article says that it is to be used by scientists doing research, so I would say that is outside of the scope of a travel guide. Ground Zero (talk) 15:39, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Agreed. But web search for "underwater hotel" turns up quite a few & those might make a good travel topic.Pashley (talk) 15:49, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

That would be a good topic. Ground Zero (talk) 16:50, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Perhaps generalise it to include things like the underground hotel in Shanghai or the one that is mostly ice in Finland. Pashley (talk) 02:24, 9 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

We already cover dive sites. "Deep" habitat will be at 50 m off the Florida Keys. Probably worth a marker once it's on site, as although only researchers will visit, the structure might be visible to recreational divers from 30 m. Grahamsands (talk) 21:23, 9 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

This is the local name for the Sea of Japan in Korea, and it's not recognized internationally. I was confusing it with the East China Sea, I fear I have put the wrong sea name in some articles, and sadly, if so, I don't remember which ones and would need to look at everyplace along the east coast of Korea, but you all can be alert for this, in case you come across it. I believe the local name for the East China Sea in Korea is "West Sea," but I stand to be corrected. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:24, 9 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

In my continued attempts to try slowly modernise this site, something I've been testing out is to get a grey background when you hover over a regionlist item. After quite a few attempts to troubleshoot this, I've finally got this feature successfully running. Unfortunately the way {{regionlist}} is coded means that I've essentially had to push this on the actual template to test the feature. Nonetheless, you should be able to see this in action on any article with a regionlist (examples at Toronto, Lower Darling or Texas).

The main benefit of this is that it adds a dynamic element, giving a more modern feel and give more of a 2025 look to {{regionlist}}. At the moment it's just a test, though; curious to hear overall thoughts on this. //shb (t | c | m) 10:11, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I should mention that at the moment it only works on light mode – I'm not sure how to add css to support dark mode simultaneously. //shb (t | c | m) 10:18, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000: I have successfully implemented the dark mode version of the hover background effect using the @media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) {} block. I have used it to implement the dark mode in some of my off-wiki web projects on GitHub. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:07, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Oh awesome – cheers Sbb. :) //shb (t | c | m) 21:14, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hang on I just noticed that it stopped working on light mode. I'll see what's causing this. //shb (t | c | m) 21:18, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Well, it works for me on both light and dark modes. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 01:50, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Nvdtn19 fixed it. :) //shb (t | c | m) 03:18, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I like it. It may not be a remarkably important change, but it is definitely an improvement.

Who would maintain this code? Could it be handed off to the mediawiki developers? Pashley (talk) 14:50, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I like it! Are there thoughts on making the grey area a clickable button, maybe to follow the labelled link or to emphasize the shape on the mapframe? Gerode (talk) 17:44, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I've thought about that, but I'm not entirely sure how to implement that. //shb (t | c | m) 21:16, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

It looks good, but until it can be clicked, it's bad UI (esp. with the hand cursor). And I'd say also if it doesn't highlight the map elements (hard to do with static pictures :) ), it has limited advantage... -- andree 06:34, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

With temporary accounts now well underway, we need to decide how to grant TAIV (shorthand for temporary account IP viewer). I made a draft at User:SHB2000/TAIV, but we need to discuss how to properly assign this user permission, noting that whatever requirements we set cannot be lower than the WMF requirements (wmf:Policy:Wikimedia Access to Temporary Account IP Addresses Policy) – which at present, is minimum 6 months + 300 edits and must be explicitly requested (which means it cannot be bundled with any other user group, nor can it be automatically granted).

I personally think the only local addition we should make is that users requesting TAIV must either be an autopatroller, a patroller, or a template editor, since that is our local requirement that we use to determine trust.

Thoughts? //shb (t | c | m) 09:50, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

My inclination is to stick with the WMF minimums (disclosure: I was one of the people making recommendations to the Legal folks about where to set those numbers; you can probably thank/blame me for the 6 month standard).

Mostly I suggest sticking with the minimums for simplicity's sake, but also for practicality. What if we get a cross-wiki anti-vandal patroller, who doesn't have/need/want those other things? If we don't trust someone, we can and should just refuse to grant the permission.

The main addition I'd suggest to your draft is a reminder to admins/granting folks that they should not grant this permission to anyone they don't believe to be an appropriate candidate for any reason. If you think someone's not going to do well with this user right, or even if you have some vague misgivings, then don't put your name down as the admin approving it. Let that be done by someone else. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:09, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@WhatamIdoing: I thought of that too, but most x-wiki vandal patrollers can get the patroller permission assigned to them on request, if they don't have GR already (which comes with global TAIV) – meaning functionally it wouldn't be any different, except we'd have policy-based grounds to preventing frivolous requests by overeager users from obtaining TAIV. I don't feel too strongly about it, so if y'all think that we shouldn't have a minimum autopatroller/patroller/TE requirement, then I'm happy to omit that.

I do agree about admins who should be able to reject a user on the basis that someone might not be the right fit for it; I'll add that down. //shb (t | c | m) 22:22, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Also since TAIV requests must be explicitly requested, I am wondering if we should create a separate page for TAIV (and other non-admin permission requests) – maybe something like Wikivoyage:Requests for permissions. //shb (t | c | m) 03:30, 12 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't think we should create separate pages for any process, until the central process page is both obviously and frequently overloaded. More pages = fewer effective watchers = less community oversight.

Wikivoyage:User rights nominations is not necessarily just for admins, so we could use that page, if you didn't like to have it at the Pub. It might be nice to encourage the idea that whichever central page is chosen is the normal process, but that requests could be made personally to an admin. That might reduce the embarrassment of an admin needing to personally reject an editor when another admin would be willing to grant it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:15, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

The issue with WV:URN is that it is only for perms that require nominations and I don't think the pub is a particularly good place since we don't archive pages here. This is also fairly anecdotal, but I have received some requests off-wiki (usually either via Discord or email – don't remember how many, but it's quite a few), way more than I do for similar requests on Meta or Wikibooks. I suspect that's because our current advice of just "ask an admin" is pretty unintuitive and also looks downright embarrassing if you ask an individual admin but don't receive a response, and this issue has been avoided elsewhere by having a dedicated page for it.

As for more pages, I don't think it's that much of an issue. I expect it to be frequented as much as Wikivoyage:User ban nominations, but I would argue that a separate page would mean more oversight since all requests are on one single centralised page and not on individual admin talk pages, email requests or swept away somewhere. //shb (t | c | m) 08:36, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Does Wikivoyage:User rights nominations ban self-nominations? Should it? If not, then it'll be fine. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:09, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

We should probably rename that page if more than anything if we are gonna keep requests there. //shb (t | c | m) 21:26, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

As a result, I do not see a need to require a certain user right before asking for TAIV either, because it's up to the admin to determine whether the threshold for trust is met. Leaderboard (talk) 07:25, 12 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Should it be made a recommendation, then? //shb (t | c | m) 07:52, 12 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

On the one hand, it's kind of common sense that if you do have these extended user rights, then we trust you, so there's no need to say it. On the other hand, if we do say "recommended to have ____", then we're implicitly saying "not recommended for anyone else", which is probably not exactly true. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:08, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hmm, true – I suppose we could quibble around with the wording a bit to imply that. I'll see what I can do once I have a bit more time. :) //shb (t | c | m) 08:37, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

A recommendation sounds fine to me (so you have a better chance if you have the right, but it's not like an auto-deny if you don't). Leaderboard (talk) 10:10, 16 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I've also added a sentence stating that if you don't meet the recommendations and are unsure to still consider requesting, which should hopefully let users who are unsure to still consider requesting and not get put off by that message. //shb (t | c | m) 10:40, 16 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Given the lack of any further comments, I've gone ahead and moved the page. Since there is no consensus on the specific location, I'm going to create a subpage for the requests for now. //shb (t | c | m) 02:20, 1 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Also sent the mass message to all autopatrolled users with over 300 edits. //shb (t | c | m) 10:06, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I just traveled from Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) to Hargeisa (Somalia/Somaliland) overland. I did it using local transport only (for example, from Jijiga to the border I sat on a bucket). This route attracts interest because it's a way for people to visit Somalia (at least in the de jure sense) without having to go to Mogadishu. However, when attempting to research how to go about it, I realized that the information on the internet is quite sparse and outdated. I ended up having to figure most of it out myself. Would there be any support for an Addis Ababa to Hargeisa overland (or whatever title) article? I could probably spend my downtime writing it. Brycehughes (talk) 20:42, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

For what it's worth, I think there is a wiki (WikiOverland) dedicated to this topic. But I'd support having an itinerary for that. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 21:12, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Very cool adventure. I would love to read about it. Ground Zero (talk) 21:15, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Selfie City That's for "overlanding", i.e. using a 4WD vehicle and going places. To disambiguate the term, I meant "over land", e.g. using trains and buses (instead of flying). Brycehughes (talk) 21:21, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Oh, I see. Would "Addis Ababa to Hargeisa via public transport" better? --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 21:24, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes, probably. Or something like this: Alexandria to Cape Town by train and bus. Brycehughes (talk) 21:26, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

You could also stick with the title you suggested, and maybe someone will add some info about using your own or a rented vehicle. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:40, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Maybe they'd contribute but I wouldn't hold my breath. Overlanders (4WDers) are a bit of an exclusive travel community due to high entry costs. Brycehughes (talk) 08:55, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Maybe Addis Ababa to Hargeisa by land would avoid confusion. Ground Zero (talk) 16:32, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes, that works! Now that I've posted here let's see if I can get the inspiration to actually write it... Brycehughes (talk) 19:18, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Same – would be really interested (and hopefully this is some good assignment procrastination for me this week :P). //shb (t | c | m) 19:51, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

This week might be pushing it heh. Now I need to figure out how to get back to Ethiopia. Brycehughes (talk) 20:00, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

To take Brussels or Bruxelles? ~2025-33545-94 (talk) 10:24, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

What's your question? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:51, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I believe the question is "Shall the English Wikivoyage use the French name for the capital of Belgium?" WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:55, 15 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

If so, the answer (in short, no) is to be found on the Wikivoyage:Naming conventions page. We use the English name and put the French and Flemish names in parentheses. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:48, 15 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi, everyone. There is a deletion requests thread for all photos of this square showing the Martyrs' Monument at c:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Martyrs’ Monument, Beirut. One is currently used in the Beirut article. Discussion at Talk:Beirut#A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion has been inconclusive. User:LPfi and I are negative about or unsure whether the image currently shown at the beginning of the "Understand" section of the Beirut article (at least on my browser) is the most useful one to upload locally for fair use. Would anyone, especially if you know more about Beirut, like to look at the photos covered by the Commons thread I linked and decide on which photo we should upload before they are probably all deleted from Commons? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:39, 15 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Does anyone use the Firefox browser on iOS or Android? Jijiga, Tibesti Mountains and TAZARA Railway do not load correctly, in the sense that I am unable to expand their sections (I use Firefox on iOS). If anybody has Firefox on mobile, could they confirm that this is an issue? Thanks, Brycehughes (talk) 16:13, 17 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Jdlrobson: Any chance you could help out here. //shb (t | c | m) 21:06, 17 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

FWIW, I haven't noticed anything like this with Firefox on Android, with the default Vector 2022 skin. Gerode (talk) 19:15, 18 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have been unable to replicate this @Brycehughes on Firefox mobile. Does it occur for you in safe mode? e.g. this url. If not it could be a gadget running on your user account. Try disabling them all to make the issue go away. Jdlrobson (talk) 18:05, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Jdlrobson You're right - it works with safe mode, so it'll be either a gadget or something in my custom js. I'll have to spend some time going through it all. In the meantime, I may just use your safe mode URL param (thanks for that, it was helpful). Sorry for the bother! Brycehughes (talk) 10:47, 23 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Participate in the discussion there. Faster than Thunder (talk) 03:15, 18 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hello users, is there a reason on why would the Temporary Accounts replace IP editing? Why is that a purpose to mask IPs? And how could this improve the privacy of an unregistered user? ~2025-34593-63 (talk) 20:08, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I believe it's due to privacy laws (especially GDPR in Europe Union). But the wiki software can't do "if IP is from EU then use temporary account, otherwise display IP". For a better explanation, check out the MediaWiki's page on Temporary Account. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 20:45, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Precisely this. //shb (t | c | m) 21:39, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Not only because of legislation, but actual privacy issues. The IP address can disclose the device you used, or at least that you edited from a certain location. The most obvious problem is that somebody who uses their employer's internet connection could get in trouble (for WVikivoyage: an edit about services not living up to promises, posted from the local net). -LPfi (talk) 14:20, 20 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Note, however, that some highly trusted users can see the IP address when this is required for dealing with abuse. See Wikivoyage:Checkuser. Pashley (talk) 03:52, 20 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Pashley: btw you should be able to see IP addresses of temporary accounts since all sysops have TAIV. You can enable this feature at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal (under IP information – just tick the box which is really just a long way of saying to not publicly link temp accounts with IPs). //shb (t | c | m) 04:06, 22 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hello. Reminder: Please help to choose name for the new Abstract Wikipedia wiki project. The finalist vote starts today. The finalists for the name are: Abstract Wikipedia, Multilingual Wikipedia, Wikiabstracts, Wikigenerator, Proto-Wiki. If you would like to participate, then please learn more and vote now at meta-wiki. Thank you!

-- User:Sannita (WMF) (talk) 14:23, 20 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Please review my article. Here is my article [1] Jeng88 (talk) 05:48, 21 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Are all the dynamic maps showing the entire world today, at least for iPhone users on Safari, except (sometimes?) in edit mode? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:25, 21 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I haven't been getting that issue – also using Safari on iOS 26. //shb (t | c | m) 23:19, 21 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

We have articles like gemstones & carpets, both of which I worked on & enjoyed it. There are also some on more specific topics: Diamond rings in Antwerp, Purchasing a kimono, etc.

I think an article on pottery would make sense, though I don't know enough to write it. We already mention pottery in many places. China alone has enough centers for an article -- Dehua, Jingdezhen, Yuzhou, Yixing etc, -- & there are many others; searching for "pottery" turns up dozens.

Volunteers? Pashley (talk) 11:27, 24 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'd be interested to see such an article on pottery, too. I don't know enough to write about it, but I'll be interested to see what's included in such a pottery article. //shb (t | c | m) 11:49, 24 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Not sure whether they are strictly included in the term "pottery", but tiles (e.g. workshops in Iznik and Kütahya, and used in decorating mosques and monuments in much of the Islamic world) and faience (Delft) could also be covered in such an article. Vidimian (talk) 17:55, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Perhaps make the title the more general term "ceramics" with redirects for tile, pottery, porcelain, ...? Pashley (talk) 20:14, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

(On Ceramics) - The UK certainly used to have large ceramics producers ( Stoke on Trent area), although my experience is that modern high end ceramics tend to be smaller niche independents now?.

(Off topic)- There are also other high end crafts to consider, like Glassware ( Dartington, Venice, Waterford).

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:20, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Native speakers call it the Amazigh languages. As such, could someone rename the page Berber phrasebook to Amazigh phrasebook?~2025-36346-42 (talk) 14:59, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Native speakers also refer to italiano, Deutsch and Bahasa Melayu. However, this is English-language Wikivoyage, and we use the name that's most used in English: see WV:Naming conventions. So no, this renaming cannot be done based on your argument. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:30, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Ikan is correct; it should not be renamed. However, adding a redirect at Amazigh so that a search for that will find the article seems reasonable, so I will create that. Pashley (talk) 23:03, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

https://theankler.com/p/ghosts-in-the-balcony-crowd-pleaser-letterboxd-issue-1 —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 11:54, 26 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

A review of US cinemas (movie theatres) - maybe some of these should have do listings in the cities concerned. AlasdairW (talk) 20:05, 26 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi all,

I've been using Wikivoyage for years, but much more as a user than contributor. For ages now I've struggled to find a way to map out things when on the go, so I decided to write an app to do just that. It's only on Android, and is called Voyage Map. You can find it here:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.okane.voyagemapper

I'd love to hear any feedback about it. For now, it's quite simple. It allows you to search near your current location, or search for a place and load articles nearby.

Once in the Map, you can click on a black pin (essentially an wikivoyage page) to get some info about the place. Then you can map the sights that are on that page. I limit it to see and do tags, as well as marker tags with type of see or do. Sights are green pins, and if you click on that, you get some info about the sight.

And that's all for now. I've got lots of ideas for improvements, but it's about finding time to do them.

Cheers, Stephen Sokratees9 (talk) 22:36, 26 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Sokratees9 Ooh, this sounds interesting. I'd like to try it but I'm an Apple user. :/ //shb (t | c | m) 00:34, 28 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I've no idea how to develop got Apple right now, but I think I could work it out in the future Sokratees9 (talk) 22:06, 28 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

From what I know, developing on Apple is a pain (with Swift) – and their US$99/year fee to host apps on the app store is the cherry on top. //shb (t | c | m) 03:25, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

This is cool! There was a big discussion not too long ago about the desire for a WV app, so it's exciting to see movement on that. The Travel Guide feature of the OsmAnd app is just good enough to be useful, but I don't think anyone from the WV community is involved in that anymore.

As minimal as your new app is, it already feels pretty close to being useful for walking around a destination. Here's a few things I'd like to see next:

• Pins for Go listings, so I can find train stations and such.
• A more precise-looking pin marker, instead of a wide bubble that sometimes covers up important details like street intersections. I caught myself doing a lot of zooming to get around this.
• An easy way to pull up the article after adding a bunch of sights that cover up the article's marker.
• A way to jump to the section of an article containing the pin I clicked on, so I can read any prose or context.

I'll play with this app some more on my next trip! Gerode (talk) 00:51, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I wasn't familiar with the travel guide feature in OSM. I'll need to check that out, but also I'm glad to see progress on a new Android app! --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 05:29, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Since a lot of you were pretty invested in the last discussion we had on the future of Wikinews, m:Wikimedia Foundation Community Affairs Committee/Sister Projects Task Force/Results of the consultation about Wikispore and Wikinews has finally been released. It combines both Wikispore and Wikinews, but to save you some clicks, the summary for Wikinews is as follows:

Archive all editions of Wikinews, preserving their content.

The implementation (including the timeline, archival method, etc) are the responsibility of the Product & Technology department, but the process should be sensitive to local project contexts and follow inclusive, transparent processes.

The Wikimedia Foundation should support and provide resources to groups exploring new paradigms for Wikimedia news content, such as the proposed “Wikinews Pulse” centralised multilingual headline portal. It should set a fixed timetable (e.g., one year) for these pilot initiatives to demonstrate progress, after which results should be publicly reviewed and further recommendations made.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Wikinews will not exist for much longer in its current state. I suppose it was inevitable, particularly being the only project where even content 1 month old becomes irrelevant (making traditional metrics used to measure progress like number of articles irrelevant), and at least the concerns with how SPTF poorly handled this was heard.

//shb (t | c | m) 00:33, 28 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Truly sad. We'll see what the Board says. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:06, 28 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'm more sad that it had to die this way. Maybe that's just me knowing that Wikinews wouldn't have much of a future from the start, though. //shb (t | c | m) 01:15, 28 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

And there won't be any revival of my short-term stint in Bengali Wikinews Incubator, and I actually helped it grow enough to be considered as a valid project. However, due to the lack of interests to work in time-sensitive environments, and given my growing interests outside Wikimedia, I have reduced my Wikimedia activities significantly, which includes quitting the Incubator project. However, I will remain active in Commons, Wikivoyage, and Bengali Wikipedia as long as I can, as my interests in those places haven't gone yet. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 06:10, 28 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sbb1413: I hope that you continue to contribute to Wikivoyage. Your contributions have done a lot to strengthen our coverage of Indian destinations. Ground Zero (talk) 13:41, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't think there was ever any way that closing Wikinews would make the (few) dedicated participants happy.

There was a study among cancer patients some years ago. They rated their doctors for communication skills. The researchers then asked the cancer patients what they understood of their medical condition (e.g., whether the cancer is likely to be cured), and separately, they looked up their actual prognosis. If the patient correctly understood their realistic chance of survival, they rated the doctor as being a "bad communicator". If the patient was going to die from cancer, but they falsely believed that the opposite, then they rated the doctor as a "good communicator".

I mention this because there is no way to tell people that their project is going to die, without them thinking that the way you told them is bad. (Also, if any of your loved ones praise their oncologist for being a good communicator, then you should start planning for the funeral.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:46, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000 @Koavf Honestly, why does the fact that Wikinews will not exist for much longer in its current state? Compared to Wikipedia, WikiVoyage, Wikimedia Commons, Wikidata, and Wiktionary, this site had less contributors than any big projects out there. Why aren’t editors contributing more to Wikinews, instead of Wikipedia? ~2025-37882-94 (talk) 12:53, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Can you reword that first question? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:03, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Because Wikinews is the only project where content that's been left for more than a few days becomes irrelevant. Article count is meaningless, and quite frankly, I'm not sure if I'd want to contribute to a project if my edits aren't going to be read after a few days. //shb (t | c | m) 21:04, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

nvm that TA is a cross-wiki LTA. //shb (t | c | m) 21:06, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Airbus issues major A320 recall, threatening global flight disruption. Do we need to say anything about this? Where? Pashley (talk) 07:55, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Probably not, based on this:

'"The timing is definitely not ideal for an issue like this to arise on one of the most ubiquitous aircraft around the (U.S.) holidays," Mike Stengel of AeroDynamic Advisory said.

But due to the quick repair time, many jets can be fixed between scheduled flights or during overnight checks, he added.' Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:29, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Perhaps not, but several airlines here in the Philippines have cancelled flights & people on expat Facebook groups are howling.

Reuters: Airbus A320 recall disrupts Asian travel as carriers scramble to patch software.

Guardian: Jetstar cancels 90 domestic flights across Australia after global Airbus A320 recall Pashley (talk) 09:22, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

The thing I'm wondering is whether by the time a warning is added, it will have to be deleted. If there are particular places or airlines that are badly affected, and you are ready to keep on top of this, so that the warnings are removed the same day they no longer apply, go ahead and add some in relevant articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:07, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

That aligns with my view. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:27, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

My thoughts too. //shb (t | c | m) 04:30, 30 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Why is this text appearing at the ends of destination articles, followed by no time? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:14, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: Sorry, I've been testing something experimental (with the hopes to eventually turn this into a proper wishlist proposal), but my internet has been cut out for a few hours now (did so as a module since you cannot have userspace modules). I'll fix it once I get my internet back. //shb (t | c | m) 04:31, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

It's causing some harm now, but if it can be fixed soon, that's tolerable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:37, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Done – should be all fixed now. From what I can see I don't think this proposal idea can be technically implemented, at least not from what I have tried. //shb (t | c | m) 04:39, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

By the way, I'd favor the text "Local time at destination." Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:40, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yeah that reads better – made the change, though you'll probably only ever see it if there ever happens to be a means of fetching specific subitems of a Wikidata property. //shb (t | c | m) 04:45, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

If you were using a template, it won't work for logged-out users because of the way the devs handle page caching. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:36, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yeah that was one of two issues I noticed: the other being how poorly standardised the P421 field was on Wikidata – some of them would use UTC-05:00, others would use IANA formats (such as Australia/Melbourne), some would use the name (such as Eastern Standard Time), and there is no feasible means of filtering those out to only pick out the IANA format from Wikidata. Works quite well at Special:PermaLink/5170569#Get in if everything is formatted correctly. //shb (t | c | m) 21:59, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

What is the difference between WikiVoyage and WikiTravel? Why are these two wikis, and how did WikiTravel came first, before WikiVoyage? ~2025-37882-94 (talk) 12:48, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Please see Wikivoyage:Wikivoyage and Wikitravel for details. Vidimian (talk) 12:56, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

(that user is a cross-wiki LTA who I've blocked) //shb (t | c | m) 21:07, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I had a hunch but I had already hit the save button by that time. Thanks for taking action. Vidimian (talk) 10:01, 3 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hello everyone,

I have recently been working on improving the article Dujiangyan by expanding its content, structure, and practical travel information based on Wikivoyage guidelines.

At this stage, I would like to kindly ask whether the article is considered ready to be upgraded to a travel guide, or if there are still any major issues or areas that need further improvement.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback or suggestions from experienced editors.

Thank you very much for your time and help! Chensiwen (talk) 06:09, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have marked it a Usable city for the moment. It is a good usable article, and is close to being a Guide City. I don't have time at the moment to go through it in detail, but a couple of points: In Get Around, I would have liked more information on the buses, as the link to the map gave me "Content not available in your region". I don't like the hugging a panda image, and we don't usually have composite images. AlasdairW (talk) 11:27, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have added a detailed text-based bus description to the Get around section, including coverage range, payment methods, and language accessibility, so that international readers can use it without relying on restricted maps. Thank you again for the helpful suggestion. Chensiwen (talk) 13:25, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

No, it's not. I haven't looked at it in detail, but it has basic problems like section headers that are bolded and don't have correct capitalization. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:22, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your feedback. I have reviewed the current version of the article and, based on the present formatting, I was not able to find any section headers that are bolded or incorrectly capitalized. It is possible this referred to a previous version.

If you could kindly indicate which specific header still needs correction, I would be very happy to fix it immediately. Thank you for your time and help. Chensiwen (talk) 16:08, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes, because User:OhanaUnited fixed them earlier today. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:01, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi. On the page Destinations Browse to a specific destination I can't find the marker for Bjelovar. Can you please help me with that?--Fraxinus (talk) 09:02, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

The article is only 3 days old. I think it takes some time (days or even months) for newly created articles to appear in Destinations. AlasdairW (talk) 09:22, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

It takes more than several months. I have created new pages in April 2025 and they have yet to appear on Destinations map. Does anyone know if it's automatically updated or require manual update? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 20:42, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

According to a previous comment from @RolandUnger, it requires manual update. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:00, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi all,

Is there any reason why a number of major sights in the See section of some articles do not have lat/long coordinates? For example Altes Rathaus & Spielzeugmuseum and Neues Rathaus in Munich Altstadt (there are 9 in total). Is it because it would make the map too congested? Or it is since they are on the periphery of Marienplatz (which itself does not have coordinates)? Or just because no one put them in? I've not often seen this on other pages, so am not sure if it is a common policy across wikivoyage.

I'm writing an app to map wikivoyage data, and not having these isn't great, but I can probably look them up via the wikidata tag (if a value exists). But it would be nice to have them in the wikivoyage data. Obviously I can add them myself, but I do not know how many thousands (or millions) of sights across wikivoyage might be missing Lat/Long where it should be easy to add.

Another option would be to write a robot to pull in the lat/long from the wikidata entry (which most of these examples have) to fix any missing coordinates. Anyone have experience with doing that? It'd be something I'd be interesting in learning about, but don't have an idea where to start.

Thanks, Stephen Sokratees9 (talk) 14:08, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

It's because no-one has added them. If you add the wikidata code to the listing, markers will appear on the map. This is often easier than adding the coordinates, but both work. Ground Zero (talk) 14:07, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Explicitly adding coordinates is useful if you want to mark a river, lake or some similar large attraction. For example, LakeGeneva is about 20 km wide and Wikidata gives its coordinate about 10 km from eithr shore. If you want to place a "pin" on a map of Lausanne a few hundred metres offshore rather than 10 km offshore, then use coordinates. Martinvl (talk) 22:00, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

For eat/drink/sleep listings, though, most of the time you will need to manually add coordinates, since Wikidata items don't exist for them. Unfortunately, no quick fix as far as I'm aware, unless someone has the technical skills to write a bot to fetch coordinates automatically. //shb (t | c | m) 23:14, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Please don't. Stephen guessed right first time, it would congest the map into a blue smush and no-one would find anything. For instance you can no longer find Viktualienmarkt street because Viktualienmarkt "Buy" has been plonked on top of it. For Marienplatz, I marked Frauenkirche because it's the most prominent structure for miles around, and a city icon. Find it and you can't help but see the adjacent POIs. These pages will merit review when the new U-Bahn line opens in spring. Grahamsands (talk) 09:40, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

What? Are you arguing against the addition of new coordinates to listings because it clutters the dynamic map? If so, that's not the site's current consensus. //shb (t | c | m) 10:23, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Coordinates are a means to an end, to help folk find places. If they obstruct you finding places then don't add, ttcf.

What we lack is a co-mapping function, so that markers could be repeated without obscuring the first instance. As it is, since Viktualienmarkt stands in Viktualienmarkt then rigid application of policy means you put a second marker and this becomes the only one visible. My preference is only to mark once, but in a large city page the reader has to scroll back up to find "See #2" before they can pinpoint the buy / eat / do occurrence. I've no idea if this is technically feasible? Grahamsands (talk) 10:49, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

In the ideal world, one would add coordinates everywhere and they would show where useful. In practice, coordinates for a market at a square, or a restaurant in a shopping centre, is not worth adding, as the market or restaurant can easily be found at the location (normally squares or restaurants in shopping centres don't get listings at all, but if it happens to be a Michelin one…). I usually add lat=NA|long=NA and link to the listing of the location (square, shopping centre) in the directions parameter. The downside is that somebody looking at the map will only see the buy listing for the shopping centre, not the eat for the restaurant – they need to check the Eat section for that.

The maps should probably allow for an importance classification, so that only main POIs would show by default when you zoom out. We don't have any such classification now, but I assume it could be implemented, with the numbers added when somebody gets frustrated by the map view of a certain city.

–LPfi (talk) 14:08, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

As per the latest tech update, it seems that two-factor authentication is now available to all users on this site. Seems per mw:Product Safety and Integrity/Account Security#FAQ, bureaucrats will soon likely have to enable 2FA, though no specific mention of local sysops. //shb (t | c | m) 23:28, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

In yesterday's NARWHAL (North American Regional Wiki Hub and Lab) meeting, it was mentioned that since there will be high volume of travellers in summer 2026 to attend the FIFA World Cup, it's suggested that Wikivoyage to improve and translate the contents of 2026 FIFA World Cup page and the 16 host cities in all Wikivoyage languages. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 21:03, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I wonder if we could turn that into an editing event. Maybe for the birthday celebration? WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:02, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I was going to say this, too. Out of the 16 cities, SF is a star, Seattle, Guadalajara, Boston, NYC and Vancouver are guide articles, while LA, Houston, Kansas City, Mexico City, Monterrey, Atlanta, Miami, Philly, Toronto and Dallas are only usable. Maybe it would be good if we can get some of those usable articles up to guide as a goal we can work towards for an editing event. //shb (t | c | m) 00:10, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sorry I'm not clear on this, but @WhatamIdoing: what do you mean by the birthday celebration? When would that be? --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 05:33, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Work on the city pages will have lasting value, while the event will come and go. Perhaps the most urgent for WV-EN are host cities for English-speaking overseas fans, as they will be looking for accommodation and related travel info right now. Three that leap out are Foxborough Mass, Arlington (Texas) and East Rutherford NJ. Grahamsands (talk) 16:02, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Wikivoyage's birthday is in January. We have sometimes tried to run a banner to encourage other (e.g., Wikipedia) editors to contribute here. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:54, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

We can push for an improvement drive on FIFA host cities and event to start on February 1 once Wikivoyage Asian Month wraps up. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 05:21, 13 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I love images, but I know that according to Wikivoyage:Image policy, they should be kept to a minimum. However, under "Photos of businesses" it states:
"If a business has its latitude and longitude specified through either the {{marker}} template or one of the {{listing}} templates ... it is possible to add a photo of that business to the dynamic map using the |image= parameter."

My question is: are these images exempted from the minimum images rule? I.e. can I add an image for every listing on the page using |image=. Thanks in advance. AskMeAboutGalway! :) (talk) 16:19, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

As per my interpretation, yes. You can add an image for every listing on the page using |image= without violating the policy. That's what I do to keep fewer images visible on prose, as per the spirit of the policy. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:49, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Agreed. The guideline on minimal use of images applies only to thumbnails visible on the page. It should be noted that those images in all cases except for locally-uploaded fair use images have to be hosted on Wikimedia Commons. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:26, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your reply! I had a feeling that was the case, but I just wanted to make sure. I wonder if this could be added to the Wikivoyage:Image policy page, as I feel the wording is a bit unclear and wouldn't be surprised if others found it confusing too :) AskMeAboutGalway! :) (talk) 17:32, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Good idea. Would you like to start a thread at Wikivoyage talk:Image policy, just to control for the unlikely event someone objects to clarifying that the "image" URLs in listings are an exception to the minimal use guidelines? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:21, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

This is welcome, as the current wording could be summarised as "Miserable Use of Images". It fails to make the positive case for images that grab readers and keep them reading. Grahamsands (talk) 21:33, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't know, but my guess is that the policy of keeping images to a minimum dates back to when our goal was to make guides printable. I think in 2025, having a colorful, appealing online interface is more important for user engagement.

I'd support loosening our restrictions on images a bit, while at the same time we don't want photos to overwhelm the text. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 15:18, 11 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Guys, that's a different argument from stating clearly that links to images put in the image tabs of listings aren't covered by the minimal use of images guidelines, which is the topic of this thread.

That said, as repeatedly stated in previous threads, how many images to use is a style choice. Other guides have done very well with anything from no photos at all to long, unbroken streams of images. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:29, 11 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

How long has it been since we had a separate discussion about the number of images? Maybe it's time for another. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:17, 12 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

As do at least two other people. I doubt the results will be different this time, but it's a neverending discussion that resumes every couple of years. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:30, 12 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes. Anyway, let's not have that discussion distract from the easy clarification that the current image policy only applies to images visible on the pages, and that an image= parameter can be added to any listing (those images show on the dynamic map). We might want to write a guideline also for those images, but that would be the theme of a third discussion. –LPfi (talk) 09:53, 13 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Feel free to participate in this thread. Faster than Thunder (talk) 20:16, 11 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hey all, as you might be aware I've been trying to modernize the listing editor which I have been struggling to keep up to date with recent updates to MediaWiki (including the Parsoid rollout). It currently uses jquery.ui which is an old library that was deprecated in 2017 for MediaWiki and the old version of the code has already broken on various Wikivoyage language projects (thankfully not this one!)

Given few people these days have familiarity with the library and support for the library could be removed at anytime, I have been working on moving it to Vue.js which on the long term would make it a lot easier to maintain through reduction of code and easier to read files, fix bugs, as well as improve overall site performance.

I am at a point where I think I've got the balance right and would like to invite testing before I unleash it on more people.

To help me please add the following code to Special:MyPage/common.js

mw.loader.using('mediawiki.storage').then(() => mw.storage.set( 'gadget-listing-beta', '1', 60 * 5 ))

If it is working you should see the text "Version 4.0.0-alpha-*" in the bottom left corner of the listing editor when it is opened.

If you find a problem you can remove the line and it should revert to the old listing editor after 5 minutes.

Thanks in advance for your help testing this. Jdlrobson (talk) 06:35, 13 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Consider:

• Travelling during Ramadan
• Christmas and New Year travel, Easter travel
• Chuseok, Chinese New Year, Halloween, Spring break, Carnival, Day of the Dead
  • bonus: Golden Week holidays in China, Golden Week in Japan (note: one uses the word holiday, other does not...)

Since most articles use the standard "just the name of the holidays", I suggest renaming the following:

• Travelling during Ramadan -> Ramadan
• Christmas and New Year travel -> Christmas and New Year
• Easter travel -> Easter

and to remove the unnecessary word in Golden Week holidays in China->Golden Week in China Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 08:33, 14 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Support as long as the articles are travel-oriented. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 08:59, 14 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Support that makes sense to me. Ground Zero (talk) 12:10, 14 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Support It is very simple to me. ~2025-40468-25 (talk) 13:18, 14 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

• Support per others. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 15:25, 14 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
• I think Golden Week holidays in China should be kept as is, because "Golden Week in China" makes it sound like there is just one Golden Week in China, but in fact the article covers two separate periods each year, both of which are called Golden Weeks. —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:41, 14 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

  @Mx. Granger Isn't the first one covered better at Chinese New Year? That said, according to en wiki, there are in fact three such holidays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Week_(China) . How about "Golden Weeks in China"? It will make it clear we are discussing more than one entity (the word holidays, despite being plural, is actually ambiguous on that). Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 02:19, 15 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

  The Chinese New Year article gives advice about how to experience the holiday as a cultural attraction; the Golden Week holidays article covers practical aspects of travelling during these periods when so many other people in China are travelling too. Maybe there are officially three Golden Weeks, but the Labor Day holiday isn't a full week (at least it wasn't this year), and I don't think it's as big a deal as the other two. For the title, "Golden Weeks in China" is fine with me. —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:41, 15 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

• Travelling during Ramadan is almost "Travelling despite Ramadan", and is written for those who don't observe Ramadam, whereas Christmas and New Year travel assumes that the reader is interested in Christmas. Any new titles could make it clearer whether the article is for those that do or do not observe the holiday. AlasdairW (talk) 05:23, 15 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Support very fair indeed. ~2025-41125-14 (talk) 11:36, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Support per above. ~2025-41315-90 (talk) 22:34, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Support sure about this! ~2025-41966-81 (talk) 10:11, 20 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

All those IPs voting are a bit... surprising? Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 03:25, 21 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Support Good then. ~2025-42053-87 (talk) 09:47, 21 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Support I’m fine with this. ~2025-42670-31 (talk) 02:29, 24 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Meaning some students of mine are finishing their work now (behind deadlines), and asking for review at https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Requests_for_comment#Article_review_requests (to be clear: some students still have not asked for a feedback there, despite it being a deadline in late November or so... so check again in a day or few, as I am reminding them to do this).

I can "make them" read the reviews and (hopefully) fix things for a few more days, more or less up to XMAS time, after that the grades will be finalized and the students will vanish.

Thanks to all who have been providing feedback and helping! (For those who wonder why I don't comment much on students talk pages or their articl talk page here - I provide feedback to them at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hanyangprofessor2 ). Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 02:45, 15 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I've been polishing up the Galway article for a few days now, and I feel like it's very good now. I'm not sure it's quite good enough to be a Star Article yet, but that's what I'm aiming for. The only issue is that the criteria say it needs a map, and I can't make one myself. It also seems like there's a pretty large backlog of map requests, so I'm not sure anyone else would be able to make a map either. My question is: is a map really nescessary? Especially considering nowadays almost everywhere and everyone has constant internet access, so most people probably just look up maps online when traveling. AskMeAboutGalway! :) (talk) 16:02, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I may develop a static map of the Irish city if I get the time. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:50, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes, a map is necessary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

But why is it necessary? Do all that many people even use physical maps anymore? Obviously some people do, but I'm not sure it's enough to warrant it being a necessity. AskMeAboutGalway! :) (talk) 17:43, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'd say more generally that Galway isn't at star status yet for other reasons as well. It also doesn't make a massive difference to an article's visibility whether it is a star or not. Maybe, focus on getting the article ready for a feature at Destination of the month candidates first, and go from there. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 18:19, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't care much for visibility (other articles are just as deserving of the front page spot), I just want it to be an article of very good quality, and I feel it being a Star Article will hold it to that quality. I realize it's probably not star quality yet, I just want to know if I should wait until a map is done before I submit it for feedback. Also wondering just how important a map is, like is it so important that the article can't be good quality without it? (Also I feel like the Star Article criteria are quite vague so am not quite sure what exactly I have to do to improve it) AskMeAboutGalway! :) (talk) 18:30, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't understand why you think a map is unimportant. Almost everyone uses maps, and they're usually online, not paper, just as this one will be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:31, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't think maps are unimportant, I just feel like most people would probably use Google Maps or Openstreetmap or some other widely-used map, so I'm not sure any given Wikivoyage page needs a map, considering there's many maps available elsewhere too. Also, every page has a dynamic map anyway, and I feel like people probably prefer using that over a static map. I do think static maps are a nice thing to have, and every page should have one if possible, I just think it might be a bit unrealistic to think a page needs a map, given that not many people know how to make a good-quality map. Some pages have been on the map request list for years, if there's only a few map-makers, what if happens if they all leave Wikivoyage? Will no articles be capable of becoming Star Articles until someone willing to make a map comes along? AskMeAboutGalway! :) (talk) 18:42, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I find that dynamic maps are great for the later stages of planning a trip, i.e., when I'm deciding if my desired hotel is close enough to places I want to see and eat, or when I'm already in the city.

In contrast, I prefer static maps when I'm in the early stages of planning a trip, i.e., where are the most famous landmarks, how do the named neighborhoods relate to each other, where is the train station, what is reachable by metro. I find the dynamic maps too busy for this in larger cities.

If you were to hand-draw a map with the ~10 most important places in Galway, what would that look like? That's what I want to see towards the top of a travel guide. You can certainly write a good travel guide without that, but it won't be the best travel guide, which is what the Star articles are.

I made my first region map a while back. I had to download all the tools and figure out vector graphics from basic principles, while following the guide. It took a few hours, but actually went better than I was bracing for. Gerode (talk) 20:00, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your perspective! I think you might have changed my mind. I hadn't considered that a dynamic map might be a bit too busy for the initial planning stage. Typically when I plan to visit somewhere, I start with one specific landmark that has captured my interest, and then I plan my day around things that are nearby. I tend to only look at the "bigger picture" of a location after I've already planned what to do. I don't tend to do the "top 10 most important places", because generally what interests me seems to be more niche places.

Here's an interesting fact to consider: I think this probably stems from the fact that I'm autistic, and some autistic people think in a "bottom-up information processing style". Some autistic people prefer to look at small intricate details first, and then learn the "simple overview" later. Meanwhile, non-autistic people tend to have a "top-down information processing style", where they prefer to look at a simple overview first, and then learn the small details.

I tend to forget that most people get overwhelmed with too much info at once, I need to be more considerate of that. What's ironic is that this lengthy reply is probably overwhelming you with info haha, sorry! AskMeAboutGalway! :) (talk) 20:59, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I realize that you may already be convinced, but I want to address your point that we could farm out maps to Google or Openstreetmap. We could also farm out listings to Tripadvisor, Google, etc. But why would we do that when we can have comprehensive guides in one place? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:54, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Er, but of course Galway has a map, a dynamic map, which is the most useful type for a city article. Grahamsands (talk) 16:42, 19 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

But that wasn't the question. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:48, 19 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I.e Template:Event? And if so, can the listing template pull down menu for "Type" field be modified to list it as an option? (Currently it doesn't appear to be there)? Friendly ping @SelfieCity from whose recent comment I learned about the existence of this template Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 13:44, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I would agree with adding it as an option to add in the source editor. The problem with the pull down menu is that the template works differently from the other listing templates. It doesn't have options for phone number, coordinates, etc. as far as I'm aware. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 16:57, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

The template has several shortcomings; I think it needs work before it should be recommended more visibly. The differences to other templates are one of those problems. I also find its date logic overly complicated at least for some cases. –LPfi (talk) 17:07, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

It would be good to polish it so that I can recommend it to my students next Fall; I often tell them to add information on festivals and like to the 'do' sections. Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 12:01, 21 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have some suggestions for ways we could improve the article, but I can't make any of them because of my TBAN. Faster than Thunder (talk) 19:58, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi all, I'm new to creating dynamic maps, and tried to add commons:Data:Penang_CAT_bus_route.map to George Town (Malaysia)#By_bus_2 using a template Template:Penang CAT bus route.

1. The map, however, picks up markers from the previous map in the article, making the bus route unreadable.
2. Additionally, '"`UNIQ--maplink-0000002B-QINU`"'? appears in the caption.

Would anyone know how to resolve these two issues? Thanks, Cmglee (talk) 16:18, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

show and group parameters could help. I edited the Template:Penang CAT bus route and it seems working. --RolandUnger (talk) 17:04, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thank you very much, RolandUnger. You've taught me how to do it properly. Cmglee (talk) 07:17, 19 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

The group parameter is available for {{marker|...}}. Why is it not available for {{listing|...}}, {{see|...}} and more? FredTC (talk) 05:25, 21 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Off-topic, but George Town should be divided into districts as it is already overflowing with listings, thus cluttering the dynamic map. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:15, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I agree, though there isn't a well-accepted division of the city. Cmglee (talk) 07:17, 19 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I see the first issue has already been solved. As for the second, it's a known and tracked bug from Parsoid (the code that renders articles). If my memory serves correctly, it's been pending for a fix for over a year at this point. If I knew how to fix it, it wouldn't be there any more.

Also, as an aside, {{Mapshapes}} typically is used to embed transport routes into articles. The route should probably be merged into that if possible to avoid having loads of dedicated templates for individual transport routes.
― Wauteurz (talk) 20:05, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Good to know. I think that route is special, being one tourists might take. Adding other routes makes it harder to maintain, and clutters up the map. Cmglee (talk) 07:17, 19 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't think my point came across correctly. I did not suggest that you add more routes. I'm suggesting that you, instead of inserting a single bus line through a dedicated template, insert that bus line using a template that is already used widely on this site and is made with that exact purpose in mind. Other lines can later on be added with another instance of {{Mapshapes}} if desired. Since the template also uses the group parameter, it can also be hidden from certain maps. In other words, no map clutter has to be made.
― Wauteurz (talk) 23:52, 19 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Wauteurz: I see now. Do you know of an appropriate template I can use to achieve a similar effect? Cmglee (talk) 01:49, 21 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

So, for {{Mapshapes}} the bus line needs to be linked from OpenStreetMap to Wikidata and vice versa, and for that data to appear on Wikivoyage can take a while. If you want to go that route (which I would recommend), Mapshape's template page explains how to achieve that.

Working with what you've already made, the Commons .map files can be inserted using {{Mapshape|type=page|wikicommons=Penang CAT bus route.map}}. {{Mapshape}} also uses the group parameter, so you can filter which mapframes do and do not include the line.
― Wauteurz (talk) 11:25, 21 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have the impression that my question in response to RolandUnger's remark "show and group parameters could help" was not noticed. So, I repeat: The group parameter is available for {{marker|...}}. Why is it not available for {{listing|...}}, {{see|...}} and more? --FredTC (talk) 00:40, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

For {{listing}}, it is the |type= parameter. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:44, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

|type= and |group= are not the same. |type= (buy, do, drink, eat, go, see, sleep, city, vicinity, or listing) regulates marker properties like the marker color and the affiliation to a map layer, whereas |group= defines the affiliation to an individual map'. The group parameter is really not implemented in Template:Listing/Module:Listing. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:07, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hello everyone,

I have recently worked on expanding and revising the Toucheng article, including updates to existing listings and the addition of sections such as Buy, Climate, History, and Festivals.

I would be very grateful for any feedback or suggestions you may have for further improvement.

If possible, I would appreciate any feedback as soon as convenient.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration. Hong Da Hyeon (talk) 17:46, 22 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Hong Da Hyeon: Check the links (marked as dead links) for Toucheng Leisure Farm and Ocean Lounge Guest House. Make sure listing names are in English, and Chinese names are in the alt parameter. Add websites and phone numbers to restaurant listings wherever possible. Add coordinates to listings in "Sleep". Add some content to the "Go next" section mentioning nearby destinations travelers could also visit. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 18:06, 22 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SelfieCity Thank you for the feedback. I have made the suggested revisions. Hong Da Hyeon (talk) 01:16, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Hong Da Hyeon: Much improved! A couple things:

• Don't delete the templates at the end of the article (geo, article status, etc.) — these are critical for keeping the article recorded in the Wikivoyage system. I have reinstated them this time, but please be careful in the future.
• Please make sure listings such as 島的對面 串燒&居酒屋 have the title in English. The Chinese name can be filled in the alt parameter. The section "Eat" looks good, but not "Drink" or "Sleep'.

--Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 01:38, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SelfieCity: The revisions have now been completed. Thank you very much for your valuable feedback! Hong Da Hyeon (talk) 01:54, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Hong Da Hyeon: one other small thing I just noticed. Could you add short descriptions for Gengfang Southwest Coastal Scenic Area and Xietian temple? With those details, I think the article will be up to guide status. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 03:47, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SelfieCity Yes, I’ve made the requested changes. Thank you for pointing that out. Hong Da Hyeon (talk) 04:15, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Hong Da Hyeon: great! One question regarding phone numbers — some seem to have more digits than others. Which format is correct?

• +886 3 971 2371
• +886 900 644 818

--Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 04:22, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SelfieCity: Both formats are valid. In Taiwan, landline numbers (such as those starting with “3”) and mobile numbers (starting with “9”) have different digit lengths and formats. Hong Da Hyeon (talk) 04:47, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Hong Da Hyeon: Okay! The last thing I notice is the spacing in the phone numbers. Please format those if you can, and at that point, the article looks good to me. I can't speak for what other editors spot, though. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 04:49, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@SelfieCity: Yes, I’ve made the requested revisions. Hong Da Hyeon (talk) 05:07, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Hong Da Hyeon: Okay, great! --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 13:50, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I noticed that in the “Sleep” section, the hotel prices are listed in Korean won. You might want to change them to New Taiwan dollars. Sunfish dash (talk) 17:02, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I edited out the phrase "in Toucheng" from "X is a restaurant in Toucheng" in the "Eat" section. Everything listed in the Toucheng guide is in Toucheng by default. Any other unnecessary location information should be removed from this article, and indeed any other article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:41, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Also, many of the coordinates you added are off. I’ve fixed some, but I suggest you review them carefully. Sunfish dash (talk) 17:54, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Good catch. I didn't check the coordinates because they looked fine from a distance, but when I zoom in, they don't look right. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 18:26, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek, @Sunfish dash, @SelfieCity: I’ve addressed all the points you raised. Thank you so much for your helpful feedback! Hong Da Hyeon (talk) 05:51, 24 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20251216-how-a-rockette-spends-christmas-in-new-york-city A Christmas in New York City sounds like a great little itinerary. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:38, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Some of it is good, but it's just her favorites. Everyone else who lives in New York has their own. So I don't see this as a basis for an itinerary article. Btw, La Grande Boucherie is good, and I hope it doesn't become too crowded because of this article, but they have a lot of space, so I think it'll be OK. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:45, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I’m excited to read this article. CreativityOnGame (talk) 09:32, 28 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

In Hirosaki, I selected Neputa Village listing and trying to sync between WV and Wikidata. The dialog box doesn't disappear after I selected the items to sync even though the sync went through[2]. And it seems to add an entry each time I click on the sync button. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 05:34, 27 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

thanks for the report. Logged this at https://github.com/jdlrobson/Gadget-Workshop/issues/28. I'll get to it when I can! Jdlrobson (talk) 03:14, 29 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thank you. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 18:51, 29 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hey unfortunately a bug crept into a recent version (v3.15.0) of listing editor which was adding new listings to the top of the article. I just noticed it and quickly fixed it. It was up for 24 hrs.

Example: Busan/North

I was hoping to use RecentChanges to find all edits impacted the bug but realized I can't do that as we don't tag edits made by the listing editor. If someone could create a new tag in Special:Tags I can look at setting that up in future!

Apologies to anyone who ran into this bug in the last few days. Jdlrobson (talk) 06:05, 30 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Jdlrobson, I've had that happen off and on for years. I've wondered if the trigger is (1) first make an edit with Extension:VisualEditor, (2) then add a new listing. But I can't trigger it reliably. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:13, 30 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I think this needs more visibility, so I'm posting the link here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Event_talk:WikiForHumanRights_2025_in_Nigeria/Wikivoyage

Maybe some of you will want to read the project page and the discussion I'm having with Lucy Iwuala. I don't mean for anyone to gang up on her, so don't do that, but I shouldn't be speaking into a void with none of you knowing what we're discussing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:24, 30 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I've joined the discussion. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:28, 30 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

eugh not another one of these expeditions. Were we informed of this as per local Wikivoyage:Organising events policy? //shb (t | c | m) 18:49, 30 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

This is the Nigerian project we've been dealing with recently, not yet another one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:13, 30 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

We had this conversation before in April 2024. As I pointed out in that conversation back then, someone who's unfamiliar with our project didn't do consultation with the community before running an event. This time it looks like a "good intention, bad execution" event. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 04:43, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I’d argue that there is a limit for how much we should tolerate events that are in good intentions. These events only waste time from project regulars trying to clean up all their mess for limited new travel content. If these bad executions are repeated (as has been the case with various Nigeria expeditions from this same group of editors), I sadly think we shouldn’t hesitate to potentially explore implementing community bans. //shb (t | c | m) 05:37, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

What is a community ban and how could it be done? I'm not seeing it. Besides, the whole problem is that we didn't know about this project in advance, so it took us a while to deduce what was happening and figure out how much of it was plagiarism and/or violated WV:What is an article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:47, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Community ban is basically synonymous with a user ban. There’s a few other things Lucy has done that I do not feel the slightest comfortable with her organizing an event on this project that I will nominate her for a user ban when I come home. //shb (t | c | m) 13:40, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

At least she is willing to talk to us. If she were banned, there's a real risk that someone unwilling to talk to us could replace her. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:41, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Well if she is banned then she won’t be able to host an event like that in the first place. shb (t | c | m) 17:14, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

She has stated that she wasn't in charge of the event. Make sure you have the right target. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:50, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Right, I stand corrected then. I’ll have to fully look into it when I get back. shb (t | c | m) 18:00, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I disagree with bannng Lucy. In the discussion, she's been cooperative and is doing what we are asking. The issues the Nigeria team have made are genuine mistakes, not bad faith vandalism, and can be corrected in the future if the event is repeated.

The consequences of our discussion, currently leaning positive, would be completely soured by a userban of (one of?) the leaders/organizers of the event. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 18:35, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Even when events are badly organized, they have the potential to bring us new long-term contributors. There is value to us being hospitable even when we have to enforce important rules. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:11, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

In theory, but can you think of any truly helpful users who have become regulars as a result of bad projects organized outside of Wikivoyage without consultation with us? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:06, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I had forgotten the specifics of that thread - thanks for linking it! But this has been a repeated problem with campaigns to add content on places in Africa without discussion on Wikivoyage beforehand. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:37, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply