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An award for you!
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The Wikivoyage Barncompass |
| You've been helping a lot on Wikivoyage, so thanks. RockTransport (talk) 19:50, 13 January 2025 (UTC) |
Listings
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you commented out a restaurant listing and wrote that is does not provide any useful information at all.
It shows the traveller e.g. where to get a good price for eating out. for example in a bar also serving food or in a cafeteria. Pizzerias serve pizza.
Is a stated address that important in a small village? Just put the name of the restaurant in Google Maps and you see where it is.
Restaurant hours get outdated. I already got disappointed when trusting restaurant hours on Wikivoyage. 80.187.74.109 19:55, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- Wikivoyage doesn't just list names. What good does that do? Do you expect the reader will choose one name and start wandering around aimlessly looking for the restaurant with that name? Writing, as you now have, what kind if food a restaurant serves helps the reader to choose. Writing that Restaurants A, B and C exist does not.
- Wikivoyage includes restaurant hours, which can change. Restaurant names can change. Restaurants can close. This used a problem that every travel guide faces. Wikivoyage's advantage is that it can be updated, unlike printed travel guides. Ground Zero (talk) 20:17, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- "Wikivoyage doesn't just list names. What good does that do?"
- Readers interested in a cafeteria may go to the cafeteria. Readers interested in pizza may go to a pizzeria. It's not correct, that a list showing only names does not provide any useful information. It's better than having no information at all about restaurants in a town.
- "Do you expect the reader will choose one name and start wandering around aimlessly looking for the restaurant with that name?"
- Aimlessly? The name put into Google Maps shows where the restaurant is including directions from where is reader currently. No address needed at all for that. In a village there are almost never two restaurants with the same name.
- "Wikivoyage includes restaurant hours, which can change."
- Restaurant hours should be better checked in Google Maps. Way more likely to be up-to-date. Otherwise likely to stand in front of a closed door. Restaurant hours can also change seasonally, which Wikivoyage doesn't cover. 80.187.74.109 22:23, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- Welcome to Wikivoyage, and thank you for your contibutions. Wikivoyage and its predecessor site have been around for 20 years. During that time, our community has developed policies that reflect the collective view of contributors about how an online collaborative travel guide will be most useful to readers.
- You should not expect that as a new contributor you can come in and unilaterally start changing how we do things here. We ask that you respect Wikivoyage policies. If you ignore our policies, you can expect that your edits will be removed, as they would be in any collaborative project.
- I encourage you instead to work with us, and starting learning about Wikivoyage policies that have developed collaboratively over more than two decades. The best way to get started is to sign up for an account so that other editors can communicate with you directly on your talk page, and so that you can have a list of articles that you can watch for changes. Ground Zero (talk) 22:36, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- You are aware that it is the entire reason we have lastedit fields, right? Otherwise I do echo what GZ said. --shb (t | c | m) 23:57, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- I don't see the point in not telling the coordinates. They are easier to look up in Google Maps by the person who knows the restaurant. The traveller reading the guide doesn't know whether the place showing up in their own search is an unrelated namesake.
- If the reader wants to go to a cafeteria, its name tells that it is a cafeteria and they are to use Google Maps to find that cafeteria, why wouldn't they just search for cafeterias in Google Maps? Same with pizzerias and whatever. They should not need to use external tools.
- –LPfi (talk) 19:33, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
Dashes, brackets or hyphens?
[edit]It is a post soviet culture to write phone numbers like I wrote them because you never know whether it is landline or cellular. So code in brackets. Locals white numbers like that and read it like that better. Coopypasted (talk) 18:21, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
- That is helpful information, but as you can see from this version of the article, if you use dashes (or parentheses) in phine numbers, it produces a yellow tag that says "FORMAT", indicating a formatting error. Also, the phone number field allows the reader to dial a number directly from the article. This function will not work with dashes. Thank you for expanding the article. Ground Zero (talk) 20:18, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
- @Coopypasted: Hyphens are allowed, and it seems figure dashes are allowed too – but not m- or n-dashes. Parentheses are used for comments (with some special characters, such as commas, disallowed) and thus don't work for numbers – and even if one realises that the parenthesised digits are the area code, it isn't clear whether they need to be modified before dialling, such as by leaving out a prefix. (The numbers in the article were formatted like "+7 (7252) 77‒55‒79".)
- The info on how phone numbers are written locally should be in the country article's Connect section, accompanied by advice on how to actually dial them. Numbers with the FORMAT warning can probably not be dialled by clicking them on a smart phone, but need to be typed in by hand in the right format – better use that directly diallable format in the listings.
- –LPfi (talk) 21:42, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
- Somehow soviet format with brackets are completely okay for android based smartphones with international firmware. I just copypaste number and dialer skips (), - or anything else except numbers and +.Coopypasted (talk) 07:55, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- Diallers can be more or less smart, and interpret the standard more or less rigorously. How does your dialler treat "+358 (0) 9 123 456" (which is a common way to write numbers in Finland) or "+358 9 1243-456 (10:00–15:00)" (which I could write in Wikivoyage)?
- Anyway, we cannot assume that our readers have smart diallers, so we should write the phone numbers in a way that any compliant dialler understands (read: that our template – and any human reader – can transform into a standard-compliant diallable number).
- Formats that the template mark as format errors (visibly if you have enabled that in your preferences), are those that the template knows it cannot write in a standard-compliant diallable form. We should avoid at least those.
- –LPfi (talk) 10:03, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- Somehow soviet format with brackets are completely okay for android based smartphones with international firmware. I just copypaste number and dialer skips (), - or anything else except numbers and +.Coopypasted (talk) 07:55, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
Content created by User:Jihaiyun
[edit]Hi Ground Zero, I come from Mangshi, China, and am semi-active in Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons, not familiar with the WikiVoyage community. I noticed User:Jihaiyun created some voyage articles related to my hometown west Yunnan. I'm really happy to see the content improve on my hometown. However, I felt a little weird. There are many errors I can see... Include wrong image[1][2], incorrect Chinese, completely non-exist information[3], fake website url[4]... Do we need to do something about this? My suggestion is to rewrite everything, but I am quite busy and don't have time to write an article of this length. What do you think? 瑞丽江的河水 (talk) 23:51, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- Just curious, I saw your discussion about AI and professor [5]. What is the story? These articles indeed looks like AI work. 瑞丽江的河水 (talk) 00:06, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- @Piotrus: was this one of your students by any chance? //shb (t | c | m) 00:20, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- I am afraid that was one of mine. Unfortunately, as Wikivoyage does not require references, I am not always able to spot AI hallucinations that student sometimes insert. I try to check the URLs but seems like I missed these. Can you delete anything that seems suspicious? If that student ever takes another course of mine I'll saddle her with extra work and triple check her output, but I am afraid we can't count on her coming back otherwise. Piotrus (talk) 00:55, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- In that case, we probably have to delete the article, or would you like to start a new draft and come back to it when you are less busy? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:13, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- I can try, but no promise.--瑞丽江的河水 (talk) 11:36, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- Why would you delete it, instead of just reverting to the pre-student version? Piotrus (talk) 13:50, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- Oh, I didn't realize the article had existed before the fraudulent information was added to it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:52, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- We are talking about multiple articles here. The student created Mangshi, but not Ruili or Western Yunnan. STW932 (talk) 17:28, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- I can try on Mangshi, Ruili, and Western Yunnan. The student seems also have contribution on Jinhua which I'm not familiar with, sorry can't fix it. 瑞丽江的河水 (talk) 21:34, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- facepalm* I apologize. I will be much more careful next semester, requiring more proof the listings added are not AI hallucinations. For Jinhua I did spotchecks and all URLs at least seem broken/fake. I recommend that article, which the student created, is nominated for deletion. I am not sure if anything there is salvageable. Piotrus (talk) 02:32, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
- PS. I did a bit more check. Some stuff may be salvageable. The slightly good news is that a bunch of stuff, name-wise, is translated from zh wikivoyage. For example, see listings 1-14 are copied from zh wiki (GPS spotcheck in them is ok, but I am unsure about content, as zh wiki does not have it for some entries). Listings 20-28 also seem ok (also copied from zh wikivoyage). I could not verify the rest. But even the entries that are roughly correct may be padded with errors; for example I also spot checked Wikidata/pedia linkages here and they are fake. For example, Jinhua Shuanglong Cave is a real local attraction, it has the correct accompanying picture from Commons, but the Wikidata link is fake (it should go to : w:Shuanglong Cave ). Piotrus (talk) 02:52, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
- facepalm* I apologize. I will be much more careful next semester, requiring more proof the listings added are not AI hallucinations. For Jinhua I did spotchecks and all URLs at least seem broken/fake. I recommend that article, which the student created, is nominated for deletion. I am not sure if anything there is salvageable. Piotrus (talk) 02:32, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
- I checked her creation Tongchuan . It has no URLs for any listings, I cannot verify if anything is true or fake in detail. At least the main attraction (Yuhua Palace) is mentioned in zh Wikivoyage and is is linked to Wikidata. Yaowang Mountain, Chenlu Ancient Town and possibly Yaoyao Kiln Museum (called Site on zh wikivoyage) at least have correct names But most other listings have no Wikidata links :( Piotrus (talk) 02:39, 15 February 2025 (UTC)
- I can try on Mangshi, Ruili, and Western Yunnan. The student seems also have contribution on Jinhua which I'm not familiar with, sorry can't fix it. 瑞丽江的河水 (talk) 21:34, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- We are talking about multiple articles here. The student created Mangshi, but not Ruili or Western Yunnan. STW932 (talk) 17:28, 14 February 2025 (UTC)
- Oh, I didn't realize the article had existed before the fraudulent information was added to it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:52, 14 February 2025 (UTC)