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This article was the Collaboration of the week between 06 November 2006 and 13 November 2006. |
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This article was the Collaboration of the month for December 2009. |
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Archived discussions
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Football shirts
[edit]Are there any safety risks associated with wearing football shirts in London, like in say, Buenos Aires or Glasgow? For example, if you walk around wearing an Arsenal shirt, is there a significant chance that you could be assaulted if you happen to walk past a Tottenham Hotspur supporter? The dog2 (talk) 01:26, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
- There's always a small chance of some random psycho acting out for no reason in any big city. But the risk of assaults happening because you're wearing a particular shirt are sufficiently low that they don't warrant mentioning. Nobody cares what you're wearing in London.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:16, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
- Outside of match days theres practically no risk. EuropeanTawnyOwl (talk) 21:31, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
The map is slightly wrong
[edit]File:London Underground Overground DLR Crossrail map zone.svg
Ealing Broadway has a pink route validator and it is not shown on the map. Are there any other errors on this map because I am not very knowledgeable on this topic. Goldenbutternutsquash (talk) 19:39, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
"Antisemitism"
[edit]This edit added a section on antisemitism. I want to revert it because I see it as hopelessly biased. Opposing various actions of the Israeli government is not "antisemitism", nor is shouting pro-Palestinian slogans "hate speech".
Other opinions? I'm also quite biased on these issues, so I'm likely not the right person to write replacement text. Volunteers? Pashley (talk) 14:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. I'm not the right person to write replacement text, either. Ibaman (talk) 14:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- If displaying Jewish or Israeli symbols could be life-threatening in London at this time, that needs to be stated. I agree that it is very possible to express sympathy and support for the Palestinians without showing hatred toward the Jewish people or individual Israelis and that we don't want to use an overly broad brush with terms like "hate speech." I could tackle copy editing if there's no pushback on the issue of who is facing danger for what. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Attacking and calling for the killing of Jews and Israelis is not the same as "Opposing various actions of the Israeli government", it is simply antisemitism. Wikivoyage is travel advice and not a political forum. Several other locations have warnings about danger for homosexuals to make their sexual orientation visible for others. However your political opinions about this is this is a real danger and it is usefull to have a warning about this. Similarly there should be a warning about displaying jewish and israeli symbols in London as this is a very real danger. Not everyone traveling to London is aware about this or updated about political events in other countries. The text may be improved, but there should be a warning about this danger in London. RobertLundemo (talk) 01:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- OK, here's a try at a rephrasing:
- ===Antisemitism and hostility toward Israelis===
- As of November 2024, anyone displaying Jewish or Israeli symbols may face harassment or even
deadlyassault in London, and police may blame you for "provocation" just for wearing such symbols, rather than protecting you.A Greek flag could also be misinterpreted as Israeli and put you in danger. - Your opinions, Pashley, Ibaman and RobertLundemo? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:22, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Rephrasing seems ok. The point is not to make this a political discussion, but to warn about a real danger. I do not know about incendents with mistaken Greek flags in London, but this has happened elsewhere so I threw it in as this may also happend in London. RobertLundemo (talk) 10:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- FWIW, I don't think there's a threat to life (or at least no recorded antisemitic killings in the year since 7th Oct), but there's certainly a significant recorded uplift in verbal and physical assault on visibly Jewish people (multiple sources including the Met and the Community Security Trust, a charity concerned with protecting British Jews from antisemitism and terrorism). Also, what's the source on Greek flags being misinterpreted as Israeli in London? The only incident I could find was in New Jersey.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Alright, I've edited in view of these points. Is the new version fair and accurate? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:01, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Idk, I was asking for a source on the Greek flag thing, not denying it had happened. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- I take your point. RobertLundemo, do you know of any cases of hostility on the basis of mistaken identity toward Greeks in London? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- No cases with Greek flags that I know of in London. Threw it in as a precaution as it has happened elsewhere. RobertLundemo (talk) 10:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Understood. And what do you think of my proposed edit as it now stands? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- As it stands I thint it is correct and useful travel advice. RobertLundemo (talk) 11:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Understood. And what do you think of my proposed edit as it now stands? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- No cases with Greek flags that I know of in London. Threw it in as a precaution as it has happened elsewhere. RobertLundemo (talk) 10:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- I take your point. RobertLundemo, do you know of any cases of hostility on the basis of mistaken identity toward Greeks in London? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Idk, I was asking for a source on the Greek flag thing, not denying it had happened. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Alright, I've edited in view of these points. Is the new version fair and accurate? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:01, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Ikan's version is OK with me, though I think it could be further improved by dropping the loaded word "antisemitism". Pashley (talk) 12:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- If people are attacking other people specifically because they are wearing recognizably Jewish clothing or symbols, why is antisemitism a "loaded word"? That's not an expression of opposition to the right-wing government in Israel; it's Jew-hatred. So we could use "Hostility toward Jews and Israelis", and that might actually improve the subtitle, but the historical meaning of "antisemitism" really isn't reasonably up for dispute. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Edit here. Any objections? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looks accurate to me. I wish the "provocation" line wasn't, but the Met have form on this and all sorts of other corruption. Thanks for wrapping this up well. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- This is simply an effect of the police allowing mob rule. If for a major sport event opposing supporters have a street batle it is simpler for the police to remove or arrest the people in the smalest group no matter how started. if someone in the smaller group have flags of t-shirt supporting their team the police could labed this as a "provovation" no matter how legal it is. The police would see this as a justifiction for their actions and tell the pople in the smaller group "You brought this onto yourself" with the "provocation". RobertLundemo (talk) 10:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- That really sucks! I'm really sorry to hear that this is accurate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- This is simply an effect of the police allowing mob rule. If for a major sport event opposing supporters have a street batle it is simpler for the police to remove or arrest the people in the smalest group no matter how started. if someone in the smaller group have flags of t-shirt supporting their team the police could labed this as a "provovation" no matter how legal it is. The police would see this as a justifiction for their actions and tell the pople in the smaller group "You brought this onto yourself" with the "provocation". RobertLundemo (talk) 10:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looks accurate to me. I wish the "provocation" line wasn't, but the Met have form on this and all sorts of other corruption. Thanks for wrapping this up well. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- Edit here. Any objections? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- If people are attacking other people specifically because they are wearing recognizably Jewish clothing or symbols, why is antisemitism a "loaded word"? That's not an expression of opposition to the right-wing government in Israel; it's Jew-hatred. So we could use "Hostility toward Jews and Israelis", and that might actually improve the subtitle, but the historical meaning of "antisemitism" really isn't reasonably up for dispute. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Ikan's version is OK with me, though I think it could be further improved by dropping the loaded word "antisemitism". Pashley (talk) 12:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)