Talk:Edinburgh Voyage Tips and guide

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do we really have to discuss casual sex? there are sites specialized for that... since someone posted the same "gay sex/casual sex" into glasgow/edinburgh" and perhaps onto other cities: why not a "where to meet people", perhaps with links to sites specializing into the harder stuff...

I've removed the sex section since it really doesn't fit in the way it's written:

• It mentions "homophobia and related problems," but doesn't say anything to help a traveller stay safe. If someone has something useful to say, it should be in the Stay Safe section.
• It says Gay Bars exist. Well good, but we actually want names, address, and phone numbers so we can add them as entries in the drink section.
• It says look on the web for helpful info about wilder sex. There are a lot of topics that would be tedious to cover (not just sexual topics); we don't need to mention each one and point out you can google for it. You can search the web for more information about the Edinburgh llama breeding community.
• There's a lot of gratuitous commentary about sex without any actual content that I can see.

-- (WT-en) Colin 00:25, 13 May 2005 (EDT)

I've now removed most of the "Stay Safe" section, because I thought it was a bit OTT for Edinburgh. -- (WT-en) DanielC 09:41, 12 Jun 2005 (EDT)

The Rotal Yacht Britannia is mentioned, but do people think it is worth writing a separate article for Leith? I don'tthink it is worth the effort of splitting the city up into "Huge City" districts, but would this be worthwhile? -- (WT-en) DanielC 09:43, 12 Jun 2005 (EDT)

I've been mulling this over for a couple of days and I think that if it was split up, the sensible areas (from a tourist perspective) would be Leith, New Town, Old Town, and The Rest. This isn't really a great list - Most of the tourist attractions are in the Old and New Towns. Leith is a special case because some cruise ships dock there (or at Rosyth). "The Rest" only becasue spliting the city up further would just create too many articles with little in them. --(WT-en) Colin Angus Mackay 17:05, 20 Jun 2005 (EDT)

I know this discussion is 3 years old but I feel it's worth reviving based on progress since then. Currently there is virtually nothing in either the Old Town or New Town articles, while the Leith article is starting to look fairly decent. Colin's suggestion of New Town, Old Town, Leith, The Rest has merit, though I feel "the Rest" is a bit messy. For me, the Old and New Towns are already well covered in the main article, and I see little value in having separate articles for them, particularly given their proximity. For example it would be easy (and is probably commonplace) to meet for a drink somewhere on the Grassmarket, head across to Rose Street or George Street for something to eat, and then walk back across to Whistle Binkies or Espionage for more drinks plus music and dancing. From the fact that nobody has written anything in them it looks like nobody else feels the Old and New Town articles have value either. I'd like to propose that all the "City Centre" material gets left where it is in the main article, and that the districts should comprise "North", "South" and "Leith". Leith clearly has enough for its own district article. North could include Stockbridge and Canonmills (some folk would like to stay near the Botanics), Cramond, Portobello. South could include Southside, Marchmont, Bruntsfield, Morningside. Perhaps under the "Districts" heading we could have some text along the lines of "The City Centre is comprised of the medieaval Old Town and the Georgian New Town, on either side of the Waverley Valley. This area is covered in this article. Away from the City Centre, districts worthy of visiting are:" and then have the district list with links.(WT-en) Tarr3n 05:49, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

Having spent a bit more time on Wikivoyage and seen some of the quality guides to cities nowhere near Edinburgh's international stature, I have to go back on what I said above. It really needs some work to do it justice, and to make it managable I think districtification is a must. I've made a start on moving some of the relevant material into the Old Town and New Town guides, and added a new district, Stockbridge and Canonmills. You could make an argument for another district covering Bruntsfield, Marchmont, Southside but as there are no real sights here I think any restaurant/bar/hotel listings can just as usefully be left in the Old Town. (Stockbridge and Canonmills has the Botanics and the Water of Leith).(WT-en) Tarr3n 08:45, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

An anoymous (141.140.120.40) contributer marked in a change comment ~Learn - I've never heard it called "Edinburgh University," only the "University of Edinburgh"~ So, I would like to say that I have heard the term "Edinburgh University" used frequently, including by students and former students of the institution. I've used both terms myself depending on the formality of the situation. If I am in a particularly pedantic mood I'll use "The University of Edinburgh" as that is the correct title. --(WT-en) Colin Angus Mackay18:43, 16 Jul 2005 (EDT)

I would agree, both terms are entirely interchangeable and frequently are by the University itself and students.(WT-en) Sgrobertson 06:31, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

The names are interchangeable. I know people who refer to it as "ed dot ack dot uck" (as do I sometimes - it is shorter and just rolls off the tongue!) --82.41.11.43 08:16, 3 Jan 2006 (EST)

As an Edinburgh Graduate I used both depending on the time of day, although strictly speaking it is the UoE.

The statement that a "shuttle bus service links [Waverley and Haymarket rail stations]" is innaccurate and misleading. Several normal city bus routes serve both stations, but there is no dedicated shuttle, or any other bus service designed expressly to provide a link. Nor is there any reason for one. Almost all train services to and from Haymarket also serve Waverley, and vice versa. In normal circumstance, you would never need a bus to provide an intermediate link.

I've amended this and removed the Shuttle Bus reference.(WT-en) Tarr3n 11:53, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

The article uses the American/Irish spelling of the word throughout. This might be confusing to visitors- Scotch is spelled differently to indicate a difference in taste and means of manufacture. Purists would be offended by the wrong usage.

Also, the "Whisky Museum" referred to in the article should be the "Scotch Whisky Experience". It would also be useful if a link could be added to the website: http://www.whisky-heritage.co.uk/index.html

• I think someone has already amended all the "whiskeys" to the correct spelling. I've amended the "Whisky museum" and added the URL. (WT-en) Tarr3n 11:42, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

• reworded section on Scotch Whisky Experience, added further info and included a warnign about the cost of some of the drams in the Centre bar. Yes, on their own terms they may be reasonably-priced, but some, by virtue of their age and rarity are very expensive indeed. I didn't want anybody to get caught out. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Ilikescider (talk • contribs)

I think the "Stay Safe" section is likely to cause undue concern about safety in Edinburgh's suburbs.

Some of Edinburgh's suburbs are among the wealthiest and safest parts of the UK. A visitor is unlikely to experience violence or threatening behaviour. The exceptions are Craigmillar, Muirhouse and Pilton where significant social problems exist- but a visitor is unlikely to find himself wandering there late at night. It seems a shame to suggest that all of Edinburgh's suburbs are dangerous.

• Looks like the above has been tidied up and made a bit more specific. Not keen on the recent edit to this section though - "seedy clubs on Leith Walk and in the alleys and streets nearby". Where? Name a seedy club in that area and I'll be there in a flash! (WT-en) Tarr3n 11:30, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

The text advises non-locals to avoid "Morningside (known for gangland violence) in the south". Is this true? - many years ago I lived in Morningside and it was famous as a "posh" and refined area. Either things have changed drastically or the statement is incorrect. Newburyjohn (talk) 23:26, 18 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I agree and have undone the IP edit from yesterday. AlasdairW (talk) 00:01, 19 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

The "Eat" section suggests that visitors should stop by a chippy and have a "deep fried blood sausage". I realise that this was probably intended to make the term "black pudding" understandable to non-UK visitors, but I fear if someone turned up and said "I would like a deep fried blood sausage" they may be met with a vacant stare from the person behind the counter.

I've amended this so it makes more sense. The whole Eat section could do with a bit of work to tidy it up and bring it in line with the Manual of Style really.(WT-en) Tarr3n 12:02, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

• re-worded the fried food info —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Ilikescider (talk • contribs)

The article is correct to claim that Edinburgh is not car-friendly, but the statement "Recently there have been massive changes to the traffic in the center of town, making it almost impossible to traverse by car." has been falsified by time.

This referred to the City Council's "Central Edinburgh Traffic Management" scheme that was implemented, for a short period, in 2005. Most of the restrictions were later reversed in the light of significant public discontent. More information here:

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/10/12_edinburgh_today_-_central_edinburgh_traffic_management_scheme.htm

I've started to update some of this info as it was outdated as noted above.(WT-en) Tarr3n 11:55, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

There seems to be some contention as to what construes an entry. As per Policy I have removed all links that lead to "Directory" type agency sites. This devalues the philosophy and values of a wiki.

I have added Leith Internet cafe ande it was removed. I wanted to know what was the reason for that?

I have added Leith Internet cafe in 27/12. This is a real internet cafe, and it was deleted.

I wanted to know what was the reason for that —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 80.178.219.50 (talk • contribs)

There is all sorts of duplicate information between the district articles and the main Edinburgh article. I suggest we remove most of the duplicates from the main article and leave them in the district articles. (WT-en) Carson 19:03, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Absolutely. Until recently (see discussion above under "Separate article for Leith?") there was virtually nothing in the New Town or Old Town articles. I've started the districtification process myself but the more folk working on it the better! For me, the major attractions should still get a mention on the main City article, with a reference to what district they are in, and the full listing should be in the district article. All the listings in Sleep, Eat, Drink, need stripped out to the districts. (WT-en) Tarr3n 03:30, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

As per the discussions above under "Separate article for Leith?" and "Duplications", I've been doing a fair bit of work tidying up, adding listings, and districtifying. Edinburgh/Old Town, Edinburgh/New Town and Edinburgh/Leith have all been in existence for some time, though only Leith had a significant amount of content, the Old and New Town content was all still in the main City article. I've now stripped out the content from Edinburgh into those districts, and created some new districts to cover areas away from the City Centre and Leith - namely Edinburgh/Stockbridge and Canonmills, Edinburgh/East, Edinburgh/South and Edinburgh/West. South Queensferry has had it's own article since April 2007, to which I have added a link under Edinburgh#Districts which will hopefully direct more wikivoyagers to that destination. It would be great if someone could create a district map for the article. I don't have the software or skills to produce one for Wikivoyage, but have quickly produced an outline entitled Edinb­urgh Wikit­ravel Distr­icts on Google Maps [1]. I'd appreciate opinions on the districts and boundaries if anyone feels they could be arranged better.(WT-en) Tarr3n 07:30, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

I'd be happy to tackle that map. The google map is useful for understanding the boundaries, but I can't use it to create the map, since the content is copyrighted. If you find a good free content base map/satellite image for the city, leave a link to it on my talk page and I'll get to work! --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 16:50, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

I've started on a Wikivoyage-style districts map, but I noticed that Holyrood Park is split across three districts on your google maps outline. Is this desirable? --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:10, 14 June 2009 (EDT)

Ditto the Meadow Parks. I resolved this by putting the entirety of Holyrood Park in the Old Town district, and the Meadow Parks all in the South district. I have put two maps showing precise district boundaries to the right, do these look correct? You might have to download the entire (large) file to make out the details. Please feel free to give a detailed critique, and I'll adjust street & other boundaries accordingly before finishing the rest of the details to finish the map. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:29, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Sorry not to have replied any earlier to your question Peter. I completely agree with your solution re Holyrood Park and The Meadows. Maps look brilliant. Thanks for putting the work in. (WT-en) Tarr3n 20:21, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Great! Glad to have this districts map finally in place. I plan to eventually convert this to a WT style map (like this, when I have time. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 22:15, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

I didn't notice this article before. If it is to retain its article status (rather than be merged into Edinburgh/West), it should be moved to Edinburgh/South Queensferry and displayed on the map. Should we instead treat it as a separate town? If so, it should be moved from the districts section to the get out section. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:13, 8 February 2010 (EST)

It's marginal whether it should be treatded as a distrcit of Edinburgh or as a separate town. It comes under Edinburgh City Council but then which local authority is in charge isn't really of consequence to travellers! I'd lean towards keeping it as a separate town. I've moved it into get ou as suggested - if anyone objects let's debate it here. (WT-en) Tarr3n 08:16, 25 February 2010 (EST)

I dont understand why this article was featured previously. The things section that should interest most, the core part of a guide, nanmely the landmark section is merely a collection of links and does not offer any valuable information. Is wikivoyage meant to be this superficial? I think it should be encouraged to go more into dept. (WT-en) LiangHH 15:16, 20 November 2008 (EST)

The full listings for each attraction are in the relevant district guide, eg the Castle is in the Old Town so that is where the full listing for it can be found. The intoduction to the guide tells you that Edinburgh is a huge city and encourages you to refer to the all of the individual district articles. We've retained brief listings in the main city article for the major attractions to help readers to find the specific attractions they may be wishing to see. (WT-en) Tarr3n 05:00, 21 November 2008 (EST)

I seem to recall that there are two major B&B areas in Edinburgh, one not far north of Princes Street, and another in Old Town (Minto)? The Sleep section doesn't record this though. —The preceding comment was added by 206.47.210.130 (talk • contribs) .

Good suggestion. I've added a paragraph. (WT-en) Tarr3n 09:24, 29 July 2009 (EDT)

This article currently has a large table giving some info about Airport carparks. I noticed that a user recently stripped out some of this info and it was reinstated by another user. I'd actually question whether this information is relevant at all to visitors? If you're travelling to the airport with your hire car you will have specific instructions on where to drop it off anyway. To me, detailed airport parking info is only relevant to people who actually live here and are travelling elsewhere. Those people are unlikely to be looking here for that information, and in any case the list of carparks in the table is far from complete and doesn't even give details of short stay and pick up/drop off facilities. I'd be inclined to strip it all out and replace it with a short paragraph summarising the parking arrangements at the airport. Anybody want to offer a counter opinion before I go ahead and do that? (WT-en) Tarr3n 08:37, 26 November 2010 (EST)

I agree with your reasoning. Can't see any reason to keep that section. — (WT-en) D. Guillaime 15:30, 26 November 2010 (EST)

I would agree with removing the table. About a week ago I undid an edit of a few hours earlier that added a row to the table. The new entry did not have an address and seemed just to be listing a directory. I thought of deleting the whole table, but did not have the time to look into its history. Other cities do have these tables, see Bristol for example. (WT-en) AlasdairW 18:34, 26 November 2010 (EST)

They were all added by one user, making them easy to find: the other cities that have them are Manchester, Cardiff, Leeds, and Newcastle upon Tyne. It seems they were added with the intent of helping outbound air travelers from those airports, but I don't think this site is the place for them -- they're definitely not relevant to the Get In section of any city article, where each table has been placed. — (WT-en) D. Guillaime 18:48, 26 November 2010 (EST)

Thanks for the feedback folks, I've zapped it. (WT-en) Tarr3n 14:08, 28 November 2010 (EST)

I updated flight info on this page-Delta airlines no longer flies into Ediburgh. Shanna —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Ravenwind17 (talk • contribs)

The Edinburgh pass no longer seems to exist (removed from see section):

For the budget-conscious and/or avid sightseer, the Edinburgh Pass is well worth bearing in mind, offering a maximum of £155 worth of entry to 27 of Edinburgh's top attractions, a 90-page guidebook, retail and restaurant offers and discounts. All this, as well as free public transport around the city and airport transfers. A one-day pass costs £30, two days £40, three days £50 (2013 prices). Can be purchased online or at Tourist Information Centres.

26 July 2015 (UTC)

Here is an incomplete TODO list which should help to improve the Edinburgh page to reach "guide" status. Pleas add/change anything that comes to your mind and/or work on the items listed here:

• Main page (Edinburgh): almost fulfils guide status, except the following sublist items:
  • Expand on history in Edinburgh#Understand: write about ..., origins of Edinburgh Festivals, recent establishment of the Scottish parliament, ...
• Edinburgh/New_Town: already has guide status
• Edinburgh/Old_Town: now upgraded and has guide status
• ...

5 March 2016 (UTC), last updated: 13 March 2016 (UTC)

According to Wikivoyage:City guide status "For huge city articles, all district articles are at least "usable" status", so I think that with two guide articles (and all other districts usable) we have met that part of the criteria. I agree that Understand needs some work, and there are other areas that could be improved. AlasdairW (talk) 23:39, 6 March 2016 (UTC)Reply

That's great (I always wrongly thought that district articles need to have "guide" status before the main page can be a "guide" as well). Apart from the Understand section, what other areas do you think should be improved? 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi, here are some historic notes that could be placed into the History section of Edinburgh:

• In the mid-18th century major building works and city expansions took place including the draining of the Nor Loch (now Princes Street Gardens, Waverley Station and the Mound), construction of North and South Bridge, the design (and construction) of New Town by James Craig, and the construction of the "Earthen Mound" (which was not finished until 1830 and is now simply called the Mound). In the early 19th century the union canal, which runs between Falkirk and Edinburgh, was built within four years mostly to bring minerals to the city.

• The Edinburgh International Festival was launched in 1947. A year later the first Military Tattoo was performed at the castle and soon became an official part of the Festival. In 1993, the first Edinburgh Hogmanay Street Party was held as an organised event.

• In 1998, the Scotland Act, which came into force the following year and was later amended in 2004, 2005 and 2012, established a devolved Scottish Parliament and Scottish Executive (since September 2007 referred to as the Scottish Government). Both are based in Edinburgh and are responsible for governing Scotland excluding reserved matters such as defence and foreign affairs which remain the responsibility of the Westminster Parliament in London. Between 1999 and 2004 the Scottish Parliament Building designed by Enric Miralles, the Spanish Catalan architect, was constructed.

• Between 1871 and 1956 trams were operated in Edinburgh, however buses were deemed more flexible and therefore replaced the trams. In 2008 work began on a new 14km tramway stretch between the city centre and Edinburgh Airport and only finished in 2014.

All taken and condensed/rephrased from: w:Timeline_of_Edinburgh_history and w:History_of_Edinburgh. Feel free to rephrase, add/remove information, etc. 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Copied to main page. 2A02:C7D:2E27:F300:65C8:D8F2:C783:C5AA 14:53, 20 August 2016 (UTC)Reply

Hi Alasdair, I respect your oponion but I think that's a bad idea and we can include Caledonian Way in the paragraph: "Other resources". The agency is a business based in Edinburgh and a company legally constituted like Super Mums Childcare Agency (paragraph: Babysitting). kind regards (Added at 02:52, 26 December 2016‎ by Edinside).

I accept that because the webside is not in English and I will remove the other Spanish link. Thanks. —The preceding comment was added by Edinside (talk • contribs)

The point isn't mainly that it's a bad idea but that listing it violates Wikivoyage policy. Alasdair explained the difference between a booking agency for services that already have a web presence and can be contacted separately vs. a booking agency for individuals who cannot be contacted separately because a traveller wouldn't otherwise know how to find them. Once we've established that, there is also the fact that a traveller to Edinburgh might well need a babysitter, but s/he is quite unlikely to travel there in order to study Spanish. But that isn't the fundamental problem with the listing. A listing for a booking service for English or Scottish Gaelic teachers who work for companies that are individually contactable wouldn't be OK to list, either. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:57, 26 December 2016 (UTC)Reply

Calm dowm, dear. I said: I accept that but I do NOT agree. Do you understand this? Well, I have included a link to a Spanish side but you reverted. Well, I think the best think you can do it's use the English link don't you? —The preceding comment was added by Edinside (talk • contribs)

Don't assume I'm not calm. I assure you, I am sitting here relaxed, but I can't know what's in your mind, or what it means to say that you "do NOT agree". This site's policy is what it is and has to be observed by all. As for your other point, I think it's best to use the English-language URL for the Spanish Consulate, so I found it and added it, rather than just deleting the URL that was there are replacing it with nothing, which wouldn't be helpful to travellers. Finally, please sign all posts on talk pages (only) by typing 4 tildes in a row. Gracias. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:12, 26 December 2016 (UTC)Reply

Well, do you expect me to work with you any more? Have a nice Boxing Day. —The preceding comment was added by Edinside (talk • contribs)

Calm down, dear. :-) You too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:05, 26 December 2016 (UTC)Reply

Don't assume I'm not calm. I assure you, I am sitting here relaxed, but I think you don't need my help any more :-)

We need consistency either old country boundaries are used or councils. The Edinburgh Western map is based on council boundary, which includes South Queensferry. The South Queensferry entry is in West Lothian section. Either the map needs changed or S Queensferry moves to Edinburgh Western section Crann20 (talk) 18:29, 6 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

We don't need to follow either old or new council boundaries. I don't think that a visitor feels that they are in Edinburgh when they are walking around South Queensferry. They would probably be more inclined to think that Musselburgh was part of Edinburgh, as you can get there without passing open country unlike South Queensferry. Also see the discussion above in Districtification.

I agree that the map needs to be updated. The problem is with the data used for the dynamic map overlays, not the static map in File:Edinburgh districts map OSM.png. AlasdairW (talk) 22:45, 6 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi Alisdair, thanks. That sounds the right approach. So who created the map, there must be a way to edit. Crann20 (talk) 08:46, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

There are two separate map data sources. The multicoloured dynamic map here is data stored on commons. There is also the map on Edinburgh/West, which is a long list of co-ordinates in the see section of the article. I would suggest starting with this, and the co-ordinates can then be copied to the commons datafile. AlasdairW (talk) 20:16, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

I have updated the map on Edinburgh/West, but it could be refined - for example it now includes the terminal but not the runway at the airport. I don't have any software for tracing a map route and so it was done crudely with a few co-ordinates. AlasdairW (talk) 20:41, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

I removed South Queensferry from "Edinburgh West" district in the dynamic map and updated the mapmask. Thanks for the hint.--Renek78 (talk) 17:45, 6 December 2021 (UTC)Reply