User talk:Emmette Hernandez Coleman Voyage Tips and guide

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You may not need these, but there are some tips for new contributors that you might find interesting, anyway, as they're full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page.

If you would ever like help with anything, check out Project:Help, or post a message here or in the travellers' pub.

If you are a Wikipedian, or have previously used Wikipedia, then you may notice some differences in the style of our articles. These include:

• "Village pump" → travellers' pub

• "be bold" → plunge forward

• "sandbox" → graffiti wall

• "stub notes" → Article status notes

• "External links" → We do not use a separate external links section, but incorporate primary links only into the text itself.

Thanks for contributing!

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:08, 26 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi, and thank you for the good work you're doing on Northern Virginia articles! I explained my revert to your changes of the cities list on Northern Virginia in the edit summary, but thought it might be helpful to give you a personal pointer to the page too: Wikivoyage:Avoid long lists#Lists of Cities and Other destinations. So why then does, for example, Fairfax County have more than 9? Because it is a region at the bottom of the Wikivoyage:Geographical hierarchy—there are no more subregions in which to list those linked cities. That could signal a need to subdivide it, but I'm not sure Fairfax really needs that. --Peter ^Talk 16:22, 28 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

OK, thanks. As for Fairfax County, it is the most urbanized county in Northern Virginia, except for Arlington County. It might make sense to subdivide Fairfax County. The county is the largest one in the state, and has 10% of the state's population. It has a humongous number of cities; I wouldn't be surprised to find that most of the cities of Northern Virginia (buy our definition of Northern Virginia) are in Fairfax County. Arlington County, despite it's small size, is split into two separate regions.

On the other hand, splitting Arlington County is easy. It has three well defined sections (North Arlington South Arlington and Alexandra). I don't know of any easy way to subdivide Fairfax County into two or three parts. Such a way may well exist, but if it does I don't know about it. I'm not saying that we should subdivide the county if there's an easy way to do so, I have no opinion. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 02:15, 29 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Don't know why I said it was the largest county in the state, I was pretty tired when I wrote that. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 08:14, 29 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Emmette. I nominated that redirect for deletion at Votes for Deletion, for reasons I enumerate there, possibly the most important of which is that Manhattan is New York County, not Manhattan County. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:10, 1 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Swept in from the pub

I've new here, and I've made a few edits, mostly to Northern Virgina related stuff. How am I doing so far, any tips? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 04:30, 26 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for contributing! You really don't need to ask for validation of your edits since the WikiVoyage process (usually) deals with that. If you really want a comment (on a 'take it or leave it' basis) then I'd suggest adding some more content about places to visit in these locations rather than just the background history of a location. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:43, 26 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Welcome Emmette! I actually saw your edits passing (I sometimes monitor Special:RecentChanges), and they are good! I personally think that background info and places to visit are both important.

Here is something you could do to help a lot: In Manassas#Sleep, click on the small grey "edit" at the right of Best Western's phone number. That opens a small "POI editor". Click on "locate on geomap". This opens a map showing a green cross where the hotel probably is. If the green cross is correct, click on it and it will show longitude/latitude. Copy them back to the POI editor. Sometimes the green cross is not at the right location, so it might be worth checking, using the map on the hotel's website for instance. By doing so, the POIs (Points Of Interest) will be shown on the Manassas map (accessible via the icon at the top-right of the article). Don't hesitate to do the same for all sections, in all articles you want. Once you get experience, you can even do it for cities you don't know (remember to check though).

Cheers, and keep up the great work! :-) Nicolas1981 (talk) 07:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Somehow I thought you meant the Marriott Battlefield hotel, so that's the one I checked. There's a hotel at the cross's location, but it's almost certainly not the Battlefield hotel. The one at that the cross's location location is the Olde Towne Inn. I'm not personally familiar with the Battlefield hotel, but Google Earth shows it as being on the edge of Greater Manassas, just outside of the Battlefield Park. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 09:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Interesting! Feel free to add the hotels you know are there, and look for the latitude/longitude of other points of interest, for instance the Bull Run Battlefield. Nicolas1981 (talk) 05:56, 27 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi there. Forgive me if I misunderstood. Are we not talking about a very tiny town of 282 people? I assumed it must be a joke to speak of it as if it were the center of a metropolis called "Greater Clifton" and talk about its suburbs and all. Texugo (talk) 13:50, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Clifton itself is a tiny town, but with a huge (for the town's size), albeit mostly residential, suburban area around it. If you don't believe me loot at Google maps, tough if you use satellite view zoom in a bit, the suburbs have such huge lots they look like farms at first glance. I think the county has some development restrictions for the suburbs (something to do with watter pollution), which is why the lots are so huge, and some historical preservation laws for Clifton itself, which is why it's still a tiny town. Clifton is locally famous is a historic site.

Greater Clifton is not a metropolis tough, at least not in the scene that Greater DC and Greater NYC are metropolises. Greater Clifton is just a term I'm using to distinguish Clifton itself from it's (vastly larger) surrounding area; the locales usually call them both "Clifton".Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 14:11, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

And yes, Clifton itself could be distributed as a suburb of Centreville, somewhat similarly to how Centreville would be described as a suburb of DC. This doesn't prevent prevent Clifton from having suburbs of it's own, and people from it's suburbs would say their from Clifton, not Centreville. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 14:16, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I don't know if this makes any difference, but Centreville is unincorporated; it doesn't have city limits. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 14:21, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Well, whatever kind of borders you'd like to call them, shown on both wikipedia and google maps. The point was that it's very very close to Centreville. Anyway, there really isn't any need to call attention to the fact that a town has some outlying areas, especially if there no particular reasons for tourists to visit them and think of them separately. If Clifton does have enough things to see, places to eat and sleep, etc., you could make it its own article at Clifton (Virginia) and put those detailed listings there. If, however, there are little or no details to be given and it's just some place someone staying in centreville might go out to for an hour or two, it's probably better to cover it in the Centreville article. Texugo (talk) 14:25, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I think you've mostly convinced me, probably better to cover this in Centervile, at least for now. The two area's are septate and distinct enough that once the articles are more developed it might be worth splinting them apart, but we can cross that bridge when and if we come to it.Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 15:31, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

My only real concern with that approach it that Fairfax Station would probably have about as strong a claim on Clifton as Centervile, but that petty much moot sense we don't have a Fairfax Station article. For the record tough, the town's "outlying areas" are about 50 times the size of the town itself, and the difference between them is night and day even to (if not especially to) tourists. 15:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

It's OK if some of the listings are outside of the town itself, that doesn't matter so much as long as they aren't things that would be better covered in other articles. But what exactly are the things a tourist is going to come here for? Texugo (talk) 15:49, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Very few of the the listings would be outside of town anyway. As for what a tourist would come for, mostly the small town feeling (not common in Greater DC) and the history, I think. I'm hardly a Clifton expert, my knowledge is very limited, but I do live nearby. I know it's a historic and tourist site, but I get the impression that the only reason it's historic is that it's old (as opposed to having had some great event happen there). There are certainly people vastly more qualified then me to write about Clifton, but if any of them are on WikiVoyage, they haven't yet. I can do a "better then nothing" job of this at least; hopefully someone who knows allot more about Clifton then I do will eventually come along take it from there. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 16:12, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Almost forgot, there are a few festivals and events, but I don't know any deatles. This place might largely be famous for being famous. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 16:16, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Apparently lots of events. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 16:18, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I noticed you created a new redirect page for the USS_Pueblo. Typically we do not create redirect pages for individual tourist attractions. Please see the official guidance at Wikivoyage:How_to_redirect_a_page. I have copied the reasons below:

Redirection pages are pages that automatically link to another page. You may want to have a redirection page for any of the following reasons.

• There are different ways of writing the article title, but only one article,
• The article is in a different namespace.
• The title has been misspelled,
• Two articles have been merged into one,
• The page might become a disambiguation page in the future, but there is currently only one article,
• The page has been moved using the move page feature.

Searches are not case sensitive. There is no need for redirects for a different use of capitals if the text is otherwise identical.

Could you please bear this in mind going forward? Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:14, 21 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

It seems there is a conflict between the guidelines above and deletion policy. Please see Wikivoyage:Votes_for_deletion#USS_Pueblo for the ongoing discussion. Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:46, 21 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

The conclusion suggests that your redirect is actually OK on the basis that it is not a commercial attraction. Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

With the caveat that it is still discouraged to go on a redirect creation spree of this type. Making redirects for every attraction out there is not among our goals. Texugo (talk) 11:37, 21 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi there. I noticed you tried to convert Gulf Coast from a disambiguation page to a extra-hierarchical region page. I have reverted it and just want to let you know why. Two reasons actually: 1) for it to be a representative EHR page it would need to be rewritten to include various other regions of Louisiana and several states in Mexico, and 2) with the recognition that there are other gulfs in the world, including a previously listed place in Thailand, there is arguably a need for a disambiguation page here. I don't recall us having discussed any similar case before, so I'd recommend you start a discussion about it and get some feedback before proceeding. Texugo (talk) 12:05, 25 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Emmette. How sure are you that that phrase isn't or wasn't used in some other part of the world for somewhere else? Also, are you planning on writing articles about the 13 original colonies? Please share your thoughts about why these kinds of terms, presumably from the 17th and 18th centuries, are needed as disambiguations. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:13, 29 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ikan Kekek It's an old term for the Mid-Atlantic. The Wikipedia "Middle Colonies" article doesn't show any other uses for that term, and all the Google results I found are for the Mid-Atlantic. The term may have fallen out of use, but I knew the region as the Middle Colonies before I knew that there was any other term for it (I kind of figured the term was historic tough, and that if the region was commonly referred to today it would be referred to by a different name). I think the term is commonly used in historical contexts, and you can't assume that everyone who would know the historic name would also know the present day name. It's hardly an essential redirect, but redirects are cheap: why wouldn't we want to send someone who looked up "Middle Colonies" to the article he was looking for?

About the 13 original colonies: it hadn't occurred to me to write an article about them, and it's hard to imagine that such an article would be useful, expect maybe if it dealt specifically with historical sties or something like that? Even if such an article would be useful, I'm almost certainly not going to be the one to write it; my knowledge of the historical sties is far too limited to write a travel guide about them. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 05:21, 1 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Interesting; I don't think I can recall ever hearing the term, except possibly in history class when we were discussing the 13 colonies. But are you really sure the term hasn't applied to other (former?) colonies outside the current US? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:42, 1 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ikan Kekek My reading tends to focus on history and the like. As for other colonies: I can't be certain, but I did a Google search for ""Middle Colonies" dictionary", and the only relevant result I found (the OneLook "Dictionary" result was just a link to the Wikipedia article) was this dictionary, which doesn't give any other definition. A Google search for ""Middle Colonies"" (without the "dictionary") didn't seem to show anything other then the Mid-Atlantic. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:57, 8 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Understood. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:50, 8 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Swept in from the pub

I tried to add Holy Land to the hatnote in the Palestine article. Here's how I changed the hatnote:

{{Redirect|Palestine|the city in [[Texas]]|Palestine (Texas)|the geographic region|Holy Land}}

But that resulted in this:

The part about the Holy Land gets chopped off. On Wikipedia, that code works fine, Holy Land shows up just like it should. According to the documentation, the template should let me link to more then one article, just like on Wikipedia.

Is {{Redirect}}, or do we just not want hatnotes to link to more then one article here at Wikivoyage? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 13:06, 4 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Templates are not consistent and equal neither across wikis nor across languages. Ceever (talk) 12:52, 4 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Emmette. Please don't make dummy edits just to leave a message. Better to leave a message on the IP user's talk page if you want to thank him or her. Powers ^(talk) 20:38, 8 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Normally, I wouldn't. But in this case: I felt it was necessary. I didn't want someone looking at the edit history, and getting the wrong idea (for obvious reasons). And I did thank the IP on his talk page. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:47, 8 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, what kind of wrong idea would someone get? Powers ^(talk) 21:31, 8 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

I don't mean to be rude, but frankly: I don't feel like talking about it. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 03:17, 9 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Well, I think that is kind of rude, since you're the one who brought it up. I trust that you used your best judgement, but without additional information I still feel it was unnecessary. Powers ^(talk) 13:31, 9 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

A city state is a state that consists of only one city. As San Marinese will likely point out - especially those not living in the capital - there is more than one populated place in San Marino. The state is tiny, but it is not a state of one city. So while we might be aiming for a more informal tone here than over at WP, we should not aim for inaccurate. Best wishes. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:54, 2 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Actuality, I think it's pretty common to call San Marino a city state. Here's a Google search for '"San Marino" "city state" -wikipedia': "San%20Marino"%20"city%20state"%20-wikipedia.

Our San Marino guide calls the country "the sole survivor of the independent city states that used to make up the Italian peninsula before the unification of Italy". Wikipeida's city-state article says "Occasionally, other small states with high population densities, such as San Marino, are also cited, despite lacking a large urban centre characteristic of traditional city-states". Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 19:59, 3 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

A mistake being common - and made elsewhere on our page - does not mean we should make it, too. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:05, 3 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

I don't think it's a "mistake". I think it just depends on how you strictly define "city-state". And for that matter, on how you define "city" (after all, all major cities have more then one populated place, their called "neighborhoods"). I suppose it's a judgement call, I've started a discussion at Talk:San Marino#Is San Marino a city-state?. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 00:42, 4 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

I have to agree with Hobbitschuster. Please, see my remarks under Talk:San Marino#Is San Marino a city-state?. Cheers, Ceever (talk) 02:12, 4 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Let's keep this discussion at the San Marino talk page. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 03:05, 4 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Swept in from the pub

I made two small edits to Template:Extraregion. That's a rather important template, so I'd like you guys to look it over, make sure I didn't make a mistake or something. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 02:12, 18 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

Was up long enough in the Pub. :-) Ceever (talk) 22:28, 3 October 2017 (UTC)Reply