User talk:Hansm Voyage Tips and guide

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Because this is, strictly spoken, the user page of Wikitravel/en user Peterfitzgerald. We have to freeze it. Create your new user page. If you want, as a copy from the WT user page. -- Hansm (talk) 17:44, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

No, it is my userspace, and per both the CC-by-SA license and our own policies, which are determined by consensus, it is my copyrighted property, and I can do what I want with it.

I'm undoing your move, but you are free to start a discussion about this if you feel that our policies are not acceptable. --Peter ^Talk 17:45, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

Peter, please move the user page back to "(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald"! -- Hansm (talk) 17:56, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

We left Wikitravel because we are not willing to have community decisions usurped via authoritarian fiat. Start a discussion to create a consensus for what you are doing, or else stop. If this is how things are done on Wikivoyage, then this is not an acceptable site host. --Peter ^Talk 18:23, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

This is not a matter of community consensus but of how the site owner manages the migration. If you feel that I'm wrong we have to discuss this issue with Fussi and Roland as representatives of the Wikivoyage Association. -- Hansm (talk) 18:28, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

Understood. I will no longer be participating in work on this project, until we have moved to an acceptable site host, and I will bring this up with the WT admin group. --Peter ^Talk 18:32, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

Well, do so. Maybe, they will find a good solution. -- Hansm (talk) 18:56, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

Hans, I don't even understand the reason for this. There is no requirement anywhere in any licensing that requires that imported user pages remain static for evermore. Where did you get this idea? LtPowers (talk) 19:26, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

Oddly, now my new user page even redirects to the "unrelated" old WT-en username! But I agree with LtPowers, to keep up with the license, it is not necessary to keep user pages static in eternity. --Globe-trotter (talk) 19:41, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

I am also missing the idea behind this decision, and I think that it deserved some discussion/announcement prior to the implementation. Atsirlin (talk) 19:50, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

I don't understand the problem, but I am not an expert on how the system works. Does the history not remain after a page has been moved? I would have thought a move with redirect from the (WT-en) username would cover the attribution, however I am not planning to lose any sleep over it and can tolerate a temporary multiple userpage situation for a while. I would like to know why it is necessary if it is not too complicated to explain. I am hoping that WMF will be able to merge usernames, as I think this is possible. • • • Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 21:05, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

The problem is. This is not a question of community decision making. Its a question of correct attribution and meeting the legal demands. We have NO proper way to proof the identity of usernames. In a legal way the user Fussi on WT is not the user Fussi on WV. IBobi can register a user named Peter and redirect his WT-userpage to his own user page. The only way to meet the legal demands is to import the userpage with the prefix and protect it. We are forced to do it. I hope the community accepts this way of attribution till we have a real statement from a lawyer or the WMF helps us.

We as the site owner have to take care of the site. I am the one who gets the letter from IB or any user on WT when we are sued. There is no room for discussions about this at the moment. If you can arrange a lawyer who can confirm that the redirects are no problem - that's ok. The Lounge is open for it. I have asked but till now I have no feedback from the WMF concerning a correct attribution. We did not find a solution to proof the accounts identity. So we all have to live with that. And besides. Why dont you create a new user page just by copy and paste and using the same Wiki Markup? Redirecting back was the just the way to create the starting state. Of course everybody has is own control over his user page. I really ask you to leave the imported user pages - the ones with the prefix - as they are and use your own ones. Now some redirect to the imported WT page. Of course you can remove that redirect and create your own ones. It was just the fastest to reactivate the imported user pages.

There are so many duties. We need all WT-Logos removed before we can go online. We all have so much work to do. You all are about to adapt your policies. I hope the community does not leave us alone with that. Please write an email or drop a line on the discussion page to contact me, if there are any problems. I am busy with my job and besides I try to keep all the contacts to the WMF and WMDE and you alive and get a timetable for the next steps.

Maybe the WMF will provide a different solution for the user account problem, but till then I hope you can live with our data migration, because we have no help from the WMF. THANKS -- DerFussi (talk) 22:10, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

I have responded in a very similar way, but I have preferred to do so on gen:Talk:Migration FAQ#Imported user pages as this is not specific to en:. -- Hansm (talk) 22:28, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

I felt a bit confused about this issue of exactly how we were establishing the bona-fides of a cross-over User from the outset, however in the pre-import period it was not an issue as the User pages were not yet here. To a point 'freezing' the WT User pages in time and copying out the content into a 'new' WV User space has a logic to it. Obviously at this time the small group of active Users here are all quite sure who the others are, but that is only a temporary cocooning prior to the En version going 'live'. Surely anything on the WT User pages is CC-by-SA license. If we can modify the articles then surely the same logic applies to the User space, as mentioned above, the histories, and therefore the edit source is all encapsulated in the histories, just like the articles are. BTY, I am here as a subtly different named User and have been from the outset. I have ignored my previous User page content since it came in.

I tend to agree with Peter, and also feel a little sensitive about 'surprise' admin actions, we all had a bit of a run of that recently at WT. I certainly tired of the ever escalating frequency of arbitrary decisions and actions at WT that were outside the anticipated protocols of established community policies, and then acted on without any proper discussion and consensus. Eventually it just became ludicrous, and that is no doubt the reason most of us are here, that, and the hopeless servers and generally loopy IB host certainly made me very restless and want to walk away. I can certainly understand the sensitivities, yet can also understand the concerns held by Hansm at this time. --- Felix (talk) 00:53, 11 September 2012 (CEST)

What if I return to my userspace on WT, and blank it. As long as it corresponds to my userspace on WT, what can the issue possibly be then? --Inas (talk) 01:11, 11 September 2012 (CEST)

Inas, with the hindsight now available to me I would happily nuke every single contribution I ever made to WT, including every detail on my user space, and it's histories, I want no part of what it has become. -- Felix (talk) 04:43, 11 September 2012 (CEST)

Grüezi Hans, hope you are doing fine. The "old" mates started a discussion about the sysop nomination. It would be great to see your opinion as well. Regards, Jc8136 (talk) 14:43, 14 September 2012 (CEST)

PS. I saw that Roland/Unger, DerFussi and you are bureaucrates (no interest in challenging that) but how about doing still a confirmation process for the admin? Imho this would be appreciated very much by the community. Also its good to know people, that reduces potential frictions... Jc8136 (talk) 14:51, 14 September 2012 (CEST)

As for me, I would feel comfortable with the nomination process. If I would not be accepted, I could avoid a lot of technical work since without full access to the wikis, I would be unable to do it. ;-)

But as for the board members, I would say no to a nomination process, even if it is a rather symbolical one. If they get complaints for a copyright violation or whatever, they need to be able to react immediately.

-- Hansm (talk) 15:26, 14 September 2012 (CEST)

Hans, you will see that you earn much more respect and i think the nod is way more likely than the downside (as the current status proves). Concerning the board members: I accept your decision (at WT we had some tech accounts to that run without nomination). I would just be glad if you would name them somewhere so that it is transparent for everyone. Thank you very much for your efforts. Jc8136 (talk) 17:38, 14 September 2012 (CEST)

Hans, just wanted to know that your (voluntary) nomination for bureaucrat and admin has been approved by the community without a single objection. So no matter what arguments will be, the community trusts you. Jc8136 (talk) 15:02, 5 October 2012 (CEST)

Thank you. -- Hansm (talk) 14:33, 7 October 2012 (CEST)

Hi Hans, I would like to bring the wikipedia navbox template onto WV for evaluation. There are technical requirements described at Template talk:Navbox on WP which I am not familiar with, and dont know how to check, Do you know if these things are installed, enabled or whatever is needed to make the templates work? • • • Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 14:02, 18 September 2012 (CEST)

HTML Tidy is not installed. All the other requirements are met. However, I do not understand why a template needs HTML Tidy. At first glance, this looks like a lazy HTML output that needs to be corrected by Tidy.

Did you see from how many templates the navbox depends? Did you make sure we are allowed to simply copy them over to here? If this shold be OK, you can try your luck. Do not copy wikipedia's Mediawiki:Commons.css if not really needed. If you need to copy something, make sure not to overwrite Roland's adatpions. Our MediaWiki:Common.js should be sufficient.

If HTML Tidy turns out to be essential for making the navbox working propperly, we can install it on the server. But I have no experience with it and there is a bunch of configs to be made. So, if possible, I would like to avoid it.

-- Hansm (talk) 18:52, 18 September 2012 (CEST)

Hans, one short question about Russian Wikivoyage. We are tracking the number of articles using the NUMBEROFARTICLES variable, but it seems to ignore page deletions. Despite several pages deleted after the migration, the number is unchanged or increases with every new page. Is it normal?

Thanks, --Atsirlin (talk) 20:30, 18 September 2012 (CEST)

I have updated the statistics table and the number af articles has gone down by 5 to 1620. I don't know what's happened. Maybe a bug in the Mediawiki software. -- Hansm (talk) 15:13, 19 September 2012 (CEST)

Thank you! Let's see if it gets stuck again. Atsirlin (talk) 15:16, 19 September 2012 (CEST)

Grüezi Hans,

i have a short question concerning http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Wikivoyage%3ACleanup&diff=1888249&oldid=1888247 I edit here as jc8136 and it has not been an old edits. Why it is still with ET-en? I don't want to add fuel in the discussion but i think its wrong as i'm cross certified and did this edit with my new registration here. Jc8136 (talk) 18:10, 19 September 2012 (CEST)

Hoi, JC. I don't know. Did you ask Globe-trotter if he has modified the default comment? -- Hansm (talk) 23:40, 21 September 2012 (CEST)

Sorry to trouble you, but now that password removal is imminent, please would you protect this page version, Hans? --W. Frank^e-mail_talk 14:04, 22 September 2012 (CEST)

How do you mean? Do you want to have protected you user talk page? -- Hansm (talk) 14:26, 22 September 2012 (CEST)

OK, I've understood. It's protected. -- Hansm (talk) 14:28, 22 September 2012 (CEST)

Thank you for trying, Hans.

Unfortunately I am still able to edit the User talk:(WT-en) W. Frank page without even logging in and I can not find its entry in this list either. --W. Frank^e-mail_talk 19:18, 22 September 2012 (CEST)

User:Pbsouthwood has managed to protect it now, Hans. Enjoy the last of the Summer! --W. Frank^e-mail_talk 22:38, 22 September 2012 (CEST)

Hi Hans. Hope you're well. Per Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub#Replacing 'Get out', the community has decided to replace all instance of "Get out" with "Go next". A MediaWiki extension is designed for times like this: [1]. If possible, could the extension be installed please? Once it's installed, I'm sure the local admins could take care of the rest of it. Thanks in advance, JamesA ^>talk 16:36, 30 September 2012 (CEST)

Hey Hans. Files uploaded at WTS don't show up at wikis of other language versions. Could you take a look at it? We're discussing it en:Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub#Sanity check at EN. --Globe-trotter (talk) 22:54, 2 October 2012 (CEST)

This seems to be somewhat tricky. I hope I'll be able to fix this tomorrow. -- Hansm (talk) 17:31, 3 October 2012 (CEST)

Hello Hans, would you please install WikiLove extension per discussed here. --Saqib (talk) 10:07, 23 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi Hans,

your subpage https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Hansm/Map_thumbs inlcudes several broken links. Would you mind to either change the link or delete it? As it is part of your talk page, i'm rather hesitant to delete their. jan (talk) 09:21, 16 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hello! Sorry for writing in English. As you're an administrator here, please check the message I left on MediaWiki talk:Licenses and the village pump. Thanks, Nemo 19:22, 18 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

[from MediaWiki:User talk:CSteipp (WMF), where the traces from the edits in question led.]

I noticed this ImportBot edit, which changed the reference to Wikitravel to a reference to Wikivoyage in a talk page post. I think this is corrupting history, and especially as the author seems not to have chosen to join Wikivoyage, it is also unfair against him or her.

I suppose this is one in a series of systematic edits, and I do not feel comfortable about us doing this. I for one would be quite angry if some of my talk page posts were imported to Wikitravel and changed in a similar way.

[I hope you are the right person to contact, perhaps to get a link to where the issue should be discussed.]

--LPfi (talk) 08:50, 2 September 2015 (UTC)Reply

LPfi, unfortunately no, I'm not the right person. I did run the DB import, but all content changes were scripted by Hansm. CSteipp (WMF) (talk) 17:19, 2 September 2015 (UTC)Reply

[end of copied discussion]

I think the above mentioned edits should be reverted (or possibly redone in some manner without these issues, I do not know how that would be). There might also be other similar edits. Have these things been discussed on some still active talk page? --LPfi (talk) 19:58, 3 September 2015 (UTC)Reply

A similar message was also sent via e-mail.

Thanks for your service as a Wikivoyage administrator. As you may be aware, our Wikivoyage:Administrators policy indicates that administrators who have not edited on the English Wikivoyage in over two years should have their administrator flags removed. This is for account security purposes, not a reflection of a loss of trust or any disappointment.

As such, we will be removing your administrator flag on December 1, 2015. Should you wish to retain your status, simply come on back and make an edit! That resets the clock. And if you ever decide to return to Wikivoyage as an active editor, your administrator flag can be restored by request.

If you have any questions or concerns, let me know.

-- Powers ^(talk) 19:27, 16 November 2015 (UTC)Reply