User talk:This, that and the other Voyage Tips and guide

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Hi! Please, be more careful with the images and deletions. In Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Atlantis Reef, you have removed the good map instead of the dubious image. However, the image should be OK as well, because its talk page contains an explicit permission from the author. I don't know whether this kind of license/permission works on Commons, but it is not a file that we want to ignore and delete.

Thanks for your hard work! --Alexander (talk) 11:06, 28 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Whoa, yes, that was an error. Thanks for spotting it! Hopefully there are not too many others. I'll see if I can repair the mess I created there. This, that and the other (talk) 11:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Ah, looks like you've already done it. Sorry... This, that and the other (talk) 11:14, 28 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

It's still going to need to be kept local though because "please feel free to put them up" isn't enough for Commons. (probably not even enough for WV...) This, that and the other (talk) 11:15, 28 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I know, but this particular case could be solved as soon as Peter (Southwood) is back from his travel. I would feel bad to delete the image right away and ignore his admirable work. --Alexander (talk) 11:23, 28 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

I think that we should try to ask uploaders for more information if source/licence/permission is missing before deleting anything. See also the discussion at the WTS pub. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:28, 3 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

You seem to be moving a bit quickly... I've noticed a number of errors just with a quick perusal. For example, you removed this image from the Orlando article, stating it had been deleted, but it had actually been marked "KeepLocal". And I've found two images on WTS that you deleted because the Flickr information template was filled out poorly, but which I was able to find on Flickr with valid licenses. ([1] and [2]) You're doing good work, just keep an eye out for these little speed bumps. =) LtPowers (talk) 15:11, 30 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Yes, it's difficult work to do spotlessly. Thank you for finding these errors! I am really trusting the people who tagged with ignore to have done it correctly... I'm doing spot checks with Google Image Search on images that I think need a check, but I'll be more careful now to check all those that state "no Flickr link". Thanks for letting me know. This, that and the other (talk) 23:39, 30 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Regarding your comment here, I suspect you may find that there is a great deal of support for moving Wikivoyage policies to be more like other WMF projects, particularly with respect to image licensing and template usage (Wikivoyage talk:Using_Mediawiki templates#Changing how we handle new templates). That said, there are some issues that have a lot of history behind them, so while (for example) it may make sense to use the same licensing rules as Commons, it may not make sense to adopt NPOV. As an experienced WMF user, but someone who can look at Wikivoyage with fresh eyes, any suggestions for change that you can propose would be much appreciated. -- Ryan • (talk) • 04:41, 12 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

I'll think about that once I'm done uploading this big batch of images! Thanks for the message. This, that and the other (talk) 04:50, 12 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

All my maps with no source information are my own work based on OSM, --ClausHansen (talk) 13:28, 12 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Hi! Please be a bit more careful when deleting KeepLocal files as unused. For example, http://wts.wikivoyage-old.org/wiki/File:IndepHall_Chopsticks.JPG is in use at http://wikitravel.org/ja/%E5%A4%A9%E5%AE%89 and will thus presumably also be used on Japanese Wikivoyage once that project has been imported. I assume that the image will then have to be uploaded as a fair use file to Japanese Wikivoyage (if the project decides to have an EDP). It is a bit unfortunate that some language versions do not yet show up in any file usage lists anywhere on any WMF project. --Stefan2 (talk) 17:32, 12 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

I understand that. However, my opinions differ from yours: since WT JA hasn't been imported to Incubator yet, I don't think there's any point waiting for it. I believe some of the most active users at WT JA have declined to migrate to WMF (Shoestring, etc), so we may never see WV JA. This, that and the other (talk) 23:57, 12 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

My understanding is that ja, as well as several other versions, will indeed be restarted here, and we're just waiting for WMF to go ahead with it. --Peter ^Talk 03:27, 13 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

You will see that Japanese is not in the list at incubator:Incubator:Wikis#Wikivoyage, which is the "staging area" for new WMF wikis... In addition to that, there is no substantial content at incubator:Special:PrefixIndex/Wy/ja... This, that and the other (talk) 06:05, 13 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

You will see that lots of language versions are listed at incubator:Incubator:Wikivoyage import. It is my understanding that those language versions, except possibly the '"No meaningful edits" recently' and '"Wikivoyage Incubator"' ones, will be imported somewhere at some point. It says that someone estimated the first projects to be imported on 1 December (although obviously something must have delayed this since it is now past 1 December). --Stefan2 (talk) 06:31, 13 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

So, we can see lots of things! I won't delete any more KeepLocal images from WTS for the time being, but we can't wait forever for the data to be imported to Incubator. This, that and the other (talk) 06:34, 13 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

No, we can't wait forever, and I hope that the stuff at Incubator will be sorted out at some point. If some file has been deleted and it turns out that it is needed at some other project in the future, I guess that it will be possible to see that at Special:WantedFiles when all other files have been migrated. --Stefan2 (talk) 07:06, 13 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Also on this note, I caught two files that you deleted today [3] [4]. The first is, I assume, fine for commons since the artifact photographed is... prehistoric. The second image is KeepLocal because it is non-free, but you deleted it because... it is non-free? We should not delete KeepLocal files unless they really are not in use--they were tagged KeepLocal for a reason, and the individual language versions should be able to vet them on their own terms. --Peter ^Talk 06:56, 15 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

By the way, I don't mean to take away from the huge and really important work you are doing--a big thanks from me for getting on the keeplocal image transfer! --Peter ^Talk 07:18, 15 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

I deleted the prehistoric one on sight because, I thought, what could be more of a copyvio/unfree act than taking a photo of a museum exhibit? But if it is indeed prehistoric, then it's fine... Sorry about that.

The second one I deleted because it is full to the brim with corporate logos, advertising, etc., and its deletion wasn't a detriment to the one WV article where it was in use (here on EN).

I'll try to be more careful, but lately I've just been transferring most KeepLocal stuff (including stuff I am 99% sure will need to be deleted here on EN).

There are some files that I have doubts about and have not transferred. I will post on WTS pub when I am ready for others to help me decide what to do with them. This, that and the other (talk) 08:43, 15 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

About "Nationals Park", the problem isn't the logos but the big TV screen. The vast majority of the logos just consist of text and are thus ineligible for copyright protection (cf. Commons:COM:TOO#United States). However, it seems very hard to argue that the big TV screen would be acceptable on Commons.

Note that my bot has fixed the use of the "Wikivoyage:KeepLocalUnused" tag. If my bot added that tag to a file (or chose not to remove a tag added by someone else), then it should be safe to assume that the image isn't needed and can be deleted. --Stefan2 (talk) 21:06, 15 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

You don't need to upload any images to the Dutch Wikivoyage. We will not allow any uploads there in the near future, and will just rely on Commons. --Globe-trotter (talk) 11:13, 16 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

I see you re-created Template:Reflist. I think this was a bad move. There is no Template:Reflist on Wikitravel, so the three user pages that try to transclude it all have redlinks. Two of those three happen to be copyright violations from Wikipedia, which I've taken the liberty of deleting here on Wikivoyage. The third (User:(WT-en) WalkingBill/Sandbox) is no worse off without an active Reflist template than it was on Wikitravel, so I don't think there's any need to have it laying around. (Note that it also uses Template:Coord which doesn't exist here either.) Would you concur? LtPowers (talk) 02:14, 20 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

I knew it was a bad move when I created it. I just did so to get it off Special:WantedTemplates, which I am attempting to clear out (this will be helped along by the deletion of old file pages). By all means, delete it. This, that and the other (talk) 03:19, 20 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, it's annoying having those laying around. Hopefully we can get WantedTemplates down to a manageable level. =) LtPowers (talk) 00:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Hi! I noticed that you deleted a few WTS files with "Ignore" which were on my watchlist. However, for some reason, you only deleted the text on the file information page and not the image itself. I tried restoring them and deleting them again, and that seems to have worked. Do you know what might have gone wrong when you tried deleting them before? --Stefan2 (talk) 10:28, 26 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

There seemed to be a server problem. I've stopped deleting files for the moment to let the server recover.

(In case you're wondering I use a "bookmarklet" to delete a file in one click with a pre-defined deletion reason. This has been working fine for the past month, but has now decided to play up. It's certainly a server issue, nothing on my end. I don't know what I can do about it though.) This, that and the other (talk) 10:36, 26 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

This has started happening again, even with the normal deletion interface. See the WTS pub. This, that and the other (talk) 08:43, 27 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Very annoying. It happened when you deleted one image on my watchlist, so I restored that and deleted it again, and that time it seemed to work. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:16, 27 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

I have flipped the switch per Wikivoyage talk:Script policy#Ad hoc admin rights. Please let me know when the task is done, so I can request that the status be removed. Thanks for the helpfulness! --Peter ^Talk 18:12, 27 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Yes I believe he must have, it must be the starting "Th" part of your username that confused Peter. Thanks for the notification, I've now completed the deletions here on Wikivoyage. Thehelpfulone 15:26, 28 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Hmm, so on the API query this shows up a duplicate file - do you have another example that I could use to check to see if this logic will help locate these files that need deleting? Thehelpfulone 00:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

As you probably already know, Iran is one of the few countries that has no multilateral or bilateral copyright treaties with the US (where the WMF's servers are hosted). {The US ratified the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (Berne Convention) on 1 March 1989 (it had already been a member of the less complete and practical Universal Copyright Convention (UCC) since 16 September 1955}.

I'm not necessarily saying that this edit was wrong, but could I trouble you to give some detail so that I can judge whether, in law, these are indeed copyright infringements?

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this particular edit... -- Alice^✉ 01:19, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Please see [5] for information. The user in question (Naintours, aka NAINTOURS) has copied images from many different sources, and while some may be own work, it is really difficult to trust an uploader with such a history of copyright violation. Suffice it to say, the images will not be transferred from WTS to Commons.

The user has begun uploading their files to Commons (see commons:Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#User:NAINTOUR), but they may well be deleted there. If not, of course, we may use them in our travel guides. This, that and the other (talk) 01:28, 30 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your rapid and enlightening response. It's a real pity that e-mail remains disabled on IB's wikitravel.org. -- Alice^✉ 01:41, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

User NAINTOUR at Commons is probably the same person. It is possible to e-mail Commons users if the user has specified an e-mail address.

It is correct that Iran does not have copyright relations with other countries. This means that many Iranian works are in the public domain in most of the world. However, note the following:

• U.S.C. 17 §104a: Unpublished works are protected by copyright in the United States regardless of the source country, so unpublished Iranian photos are protected by copyright in the United States.
• U.S.C. 17 §104b: Iranian works are normally protected by copyright in the United States (and most other countries) if they were first published outside Iran (for example on Flickr, Commons or Wikitravel), or published outside Iran within 30 days after publication in Iran. Also, photos taken in Iran are normally protected by copyright if the photographer is either a citizen or a resident of any country other than Iran.

As we don't know the country of first publication and citizenship and country of residence of the photographer, the copyright status in the United States can't be determined. Also, Commons requires photos to be free in the source country anyway, and the photos are protected by copyright in Iran. Wikivoyage could choose to host images which are free in the United States but unfree in the source country; this is up to Wikivoyage to decide. Currently, the idea seems to be that there should be as few local images as possible. --Stefan2 (talk) 02:14, 30 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

I agree, Stefan.

Is this you: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Stefan , too? -- Alice^✉ 02:29, 30 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Stefan is "Stefan4" on Commons. This, that and the other (talk) 05:29, 30 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, again. -- Alice^✉ 06:09, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi! I've nominated some of your uploads for deletion:

• Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion#File:184156380.jpg
• Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion#File:Start-of-Walk.jpg
• Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion#File:WhereIveBeenMap Pinkfluffybrick.png
• Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion#File:Powlow.jpg
• Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion#File:Statue SaigoTakamori.JPG

Stefan2 (talk) 17:08, 4 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Strangely enough, I'm quite happy about that! All the KeepLocal files need to be checked. Many are non-free works and either need a fair use rationale or to be deleted. If you want to publicise this, there is a guide at User:This, that and the other/keeplocal. This, that and the other (talk) 23:40, 4 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi. I saw this derivative of one of my Commons images was uploaded. To clear up, under Commons policies, the "arrows of indecision" BR logo is PD-ineligible, so I have transferred the image to Commons as File:Severn Beach railway station MMB 02C.jpg. Could you sort out this end of things? If you need to contact me, use my Commons talk page. Thanks. -mattbuck (Talk) 00:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I like it. It's excellent that if someone searches for that phrase, they get directed to a page that shows them what to upload where. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:56, 1 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

The idea is eventually to have it linked from the toolbox instead of that mysterious "non-free files" link. See pub#Upload file. This, that and the other (talk) 08:39, 1 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hey TTO, how do you transfer files from Commons to here while preserving the upload history? Is there a tool that I could use? --Peter ^Talk 04:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

I use a "hacked" version of w:WP:FTCG, a tool which I wrote. FtCG is designed to transfer files to Commons, but I hacked it so it worked the other way (actually, I was transferring KeepLocal files from WTS). I'm hesitant to give you a hacked version (it has strange quirks that are difficult to work around if you don't understand FtCG's inner workings), but I could always do the transfers as required. Why would we need to transfer from Commons to here, though? This, that and the other (talk) 06:13, 12 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

There is also Commons:User:Commons fair use upload bot which can upload images from Commons to certain Wikipedias. If you often want files to be copied from there, you could maybe ask the operator of that bot to help with transfers. --Stefan2 (talk) 08:18, 12 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

We only need to do this when an image being used here is being deleted on Commons for FOP reasons. If it's too complicated, I'll leave this to the experts (you) ;) --Peter ^Talk 07:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Probably better to try and get the bot going. This, that and the other (talk) 09:57, 13 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

The bot is operated by User:Dcoetzee. If you want his bot to help you, try contacting him on Commons or English Wikipedia. --Stefan2 (talk) 11:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

hi there, what about the location template or some way to add the location to a place and a mini map or geohack etc. mike

Hi Mike, I wrote Template:Listing to begin with, but I don't know what's been done to it since then. You would be better off asking at Template talk:Listing or even at the Pub. Thanks, This, that and the other (talk) 07:39, 15 July 2013 (UTC)Reply