Wikivoyage talk:UX Expedition Voyage Tips and guide

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Swept in from the pub

Hi, is there an Android app for Wikivoyage? How does it work? I have been advised that there is no infrastructure for push notifications for Android apps for sister wikis and I would be interested to know more. Related: phab:T378545. Thanks! Gryllida (talk) 23:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Gryllida: AFAIK, no, we don't have either an iOS or an Android app for Wikivoyage. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 23:27, 29 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Swept in from the pub

Hi all, I've been using wikivoyage while I backpack through Spain. There are a number of usability or UX issues that I'm repeatedly running into. At first I was planning on building a browser extension to make these modifications, but then I realized perhaps I can make these changes to the site itself?

To start off simply, I'm interested in making page sections collapsible, with a clickable button or icon next to their header text. For example, on the page for Girona, the map of the city is inside of the Get In section. I would like to be able to collapse the Get Around section so that it is easier to look through the items in the See section and cross-reference the city map.

I've looked around and I think this is an overall Wikimedia modification that would be necessary, not something that is Wikivoyage-specific? To what degree are Wikivoyage-specific changes possible? I've found this page on Phabricator, and it makes it sound like headings are already collapsible? Perhaps I am somehow using an outdated interface on Wikipedia when I view a page and there are no collapsible headers (outside of the left side contents pane). Is that where I should go to start discussing this feature request and my work in completing it?

TL/DR: seeking direction on how/where to begin contributing technically to Wikivoyage MappinWeeks (talk) 00:26, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Are you using the regular or mobile version of the site? I think collapsible sections are a feature of the mobile version, see https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Girona. The recommended position for the map is in Get around, but this is optional, see Wikivoyage:Map. AlasdairW (talk) 05:38, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've been using the desktop version of the site. I can use the mobile site moving forward. Thank you. I suppose I can submit a wish for the desktop version of the site to also have collapsible sections. MappinWeeks (talk) 23:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

@MappinWeeks: If you want to submit ideas for new features, I think m:Community Wishlist would be your go-to. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 05:52, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Although it might make sense to ask here first, to confirm they aren't about your personal settings. On mobile, I get the sections collapsed by default; visiting the mobile site on desktop, I get them collapsible (even with Monobook); just using the mobile skin (Minerva) on desktop gives no collapsibility. –LPfi (talk) 10:02, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000: Awesome, thank you. Lots to look through in here. MappinWeeks (talk) 23:54, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

@MappinWeeks, since you can code, you might be interested in https://developer.wikimedia.org/

There are two 'sites' or ways of viewing Wikivoyage: One is en.wikivoyage.org and the other is en.m.wikivoyage.org ('m' for 'mobile'). If you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, the very last words in the footer (down with the privacy policy and disclaimers) are a link to switch to 'Mobile view' or back to desktop view. The mobile site has collapsible sections. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:04, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

@WhatamIdoing: Thank you for the link. I'm of the mind that desktop users should also have the ability to easily collapse sections on the site when they reach a page fresh from a search engine, but upon looking more into the decision making process of the Wikimedia foundation I feel like this may be a decision that has "already been made"? TBH my only experience with the wikis is reading WP and WV voraciously and occasionally fixing typo or grammar errors as I see them. Wading into the administration of everything has me feeling a bit overwhelmed with all of the process involved. MappinWeeks (talk) 00:02, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Well, there are hundreds of thousands of people who contribute at least a tiny bit during the course of a year, so we've got to have some process.

I'm not sure this decision is carved in stone. It might be something that just hasn't been done yet. I think @SGrabarczuk (WMF) will know if there have been any recent discussions about collapsing sections on the 'desktop' site. I know that it was suggested for talk pages (e.g., like this one) in the recent past. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:08, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks @WhatamIdoing for the ping. No, there has been no such discussion in the recent months. @MappinWeeks, I'm guessing that there may be different arguments for different Wikimedia projects; for example what's good for Commons may not be good for Wikivoyage or Wikipedia, and thus project-specific solutions may have lower chances of being built.

However! :D based on this conversation, we may document your idea to have it reviewed later. More people could also chime in and continue the topic. So MappinWeeks, could you elaborate on what problem you believe making the headers collapsible would solve? Let's focus on the problem itself. Thanks! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 01:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

So here's one thing: Being able to collapse sections means that you can get irrelevant or distracting bits off your screen. Here at Wikivoyage, we don't do animated gifs or videos, but collapsing a section that contains a large map might be useful. Alternatively, if you're trying to make a decision about where to sleep, collapsing everything else might make it easier to focus on what you're looking at (or what everyone else is looking at, if discussions about finding a hotel keep getting answers like "This restaurant sounds great" or "I'd like to go see that..."). WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:15, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

@SGrabarczuk (WMF) Sure, I can think of a few different problems. One is, as WhatAmIDoing mentioned, simply removing excess information. A true example that happened to me several times: I arrive to my hostel in say Sevilla, and pull up the Wikivoyage page for the city. Since I've already gotten to the city and to my accommodations, the sections for Get In and Stay are both ones that are of no help to me. I would simply ignore those. But a more pressing need, that I would actually use the browser web developer tools to remove DOM nodes, is what I mentioned above:

Let's say I'm looking at the page for Girona and trying to come up with a plan for walking the city and seeing the sights. I can't blindly use the items in the See section because if I go to all of them in order, there's a good chance that I will be walking back and forth across the city. To facilitate coming up with my walking itinerary, I will use the city map to see where all of these items of interest are. On the Girona page, the map of the city is inside of the Get In section. In order for me to switch back and forth between the items in the See section and the map, I need to scroll past the Get Around section entirely. This is where I would use Firefox developer tools to remove all DOM nodes from that section to make referencing back and forth easier. If the sections were collapsible on the desktop version of the site, this would be a lot simpler to handle.

The point that WhatAmIdoing brought up about having a group all looking at the screen together and unintentionally looking at the wrong sections is great, too. If you could collapse all of the sections except for the hotel or restaurant one, that could help making group decisions easier if you are viewing the page with a group.

@SGrabarczuk (WMF) I understand your point about changes for WV may not be helpful for other parts of the WMF. If something is decided to be implemented in only one site is agreed upon, how is the difference in code across sites accommodated? Also, what is the process for, or where are these technical direction decisions made? Is it all with Phabricator? MappinWeeks (talk) 00:47, 20 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

The ability to focus on a single section should be good for some individuals, too (e.g., with ADHD or dyslexia). This will be more relevant on larger screens/devices than on smartphones. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

On desktop, one solution to MappinWeeks' scenario – the one I use – is to have the map in one window and the See in another (and perhaps Eat in a third one, partly obscured by See, switching between them as needed). For this to work, it is essential that the pages can be made narrow enough. –LPfi (talk) 10:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Reply