Talk:Dalian Voyage Tips and guide

Contents

As requested in the Pub, here are a few quick thoughts on this article. First, awesome job! It is very close to star status and could probably be listed for nomination. (WT-en) Andrew already moved the maps to a more logical location, and I've added a more specific isIn, links to Wikipedia and Dmoz, and listed the article at guide status. In looking quickly through the article I saw at least one non-primary link under the "Sleep" section, so that should be removed in accordance with Project:External links.

If it would be useful from an organizational standpoint it might make sense to divide the article into districts - Wikivoyage uses districts that are useful to travelers, so if the government districts don't make sense then perhaps some other delineation would be good. I don't know the city well enough to understand if that's appropriate, and the current length of the article isn't so great that a breakup is needed right now.

This is a great article, nice work! -- (WT-en) Ryan 15:03, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

This is amazing! This seems ready to be a Star if you ask me. I don't think it makes sense to district this though, as you say the article is still manageable in length and Dalian is just not that big a tourist destination. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:54, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for the feedback both of you. I'm currently thinking that it might be better to split the article into the government districts, they actually divide quite nicely and I've finally tracked down a map which shows their borders (one of the reasons I was hesitant earlier was because I only had a vague idea of how the districts broke down). I'll try it out, it's quite possible that there's not really enough info on the individual districts to warrant the division, in which case it'll be on to plan B. Currently that's "come up with a plan B".

Regarding the non-primary link, I was careful only to link to the specific hotel sites. I assume you're referring to the Hotel Nikko link [1] which is primary (the hotel is part of the JAL Hotels chain), but not the main site of the hotel. I put it in as the main site [2] seemed to be broken. I figured it best to put in an alternative until the main site was fixed. --(WT-en) Paul. 18:35, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

So, this isn't a star article, since it doesn't match our Project:manual of style in several ways.

1. It is a huge city broken up into districts, but not every district is it's own article. Is this "the exception that proves the rule"? I dunno.
2. "See" listings aren't in Project:attraction listings format.
3. "Do" listings aren't in attraction listings format.
4. Both "See" and "Do" should be broken down into listings of places rather than generalisms. For example, the "Warner-Wanda Complex" should be its own listing, not buried under "Entertainment".
5. There are no restaurant listings under "Eat".
6. The stores listed in "Buy" should be broken out into listings.
7. The "Drink" section doesn't name any particular bars or nightclubs.
8. There are no hotels named in "sleep".
9. The "Get out" listings need to be in their own articles.

I realize this is a huge city, so many of the listings are in the district articles. But most of them don't have necessary contact info (addresses, phone numbers, directions) either.

I've rolled this back. --(WT-en) Evan 11:27, 20 December 2006 (EST)

I'm not following you here. 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 don't apply, because this is a huge city top level article and it's supposed to give pointers into the districts, exactly like this article is doing. Look at the huge city template: "Don't give full details about each X", "Avoid specific restaurant info", "Avoid specific bar listings", "Avoid listing specific hotels", etc. If you don't like this, I suggest you go propose that on the Talk page of the template. I've rolled back your rollback. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:01, 20 December 2006 (EST)

I agree that huge cities should have light listings that point to fuller listings in the district articles. The district articles, here, don't have that information. I believe with Singapore we required that district articles be stars before the huge city became a star. Is that wrong? I'm not sure you could use this article and its sub-articles to find a restaurant, book a hotel, or go to see an attraction. I just think we're stretching the definition of "star" if that's the case. --(WT-en) Evan 12:12, 20 December 2006 (EST)

OK, I see your point. The major difference here is that the Singapore 'front page' tries to link places directly [[Singapore/Riverside|Clarke Quay]] style, while the Dalian page just lists street names with no links and occasionally throws in a (Foobar District) with a link. But, strictly speaking, this isn't mandated by the MoS and maybe it's the template that should be clarified... (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:56, 20 December 2006 (EST)

Project:City_guide_status says that all distric articles should be guide status... (WT-en) Cacahuate 12:23, 20 December 2006 (EST)

And - for the record - they're not. The three district articles that exist (one manages to avoid scrutiny by not existing) all said "{{guide}}" at the bottom, but two of them have only a single entry (a "Splurge" one) under Eat, and one doesn't even have a single Sleep listing. I've retagged those two as {{usablecity}} and {{outline}}, because that's objectively what they are. Even for the city as whole if it were de-districted, it's still rather short on listings for places to eat or sleep. Quick quiz: I'm a "budget" traveler who just got off the train and is willing to go anywhere in the city for a meal. Name a restaurant in my price range. This article is cerainly Usable, and maybe it should be classified as a Guide, but it is not a Star article. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 16:56, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Moved out of main article' – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 20:07, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

Was in Dalian for a day last week and booked a room in advance at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel on Zhongshan Qu (Warship #104).

But upon arriving at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel I was met by a hostile (not to be confused with hostel) receptionist who refused to allow me through the front doors, claiming that FOREIGNERS ARE NOT ALLOWED at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel!

I was with my Chinese traveling companion, and we met with the manager of the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel, reminding them that "international" usually means everyone, not just Chinese, and that the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel's racist, exclusionary policy of refusing westerners contradicted the basic tenants of YHA and HI.

They retorted that because the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel was located on a naval facility that the government had established the NO FOREIGNERS ALLOWED at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel rule, but then how did the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel ever get authorized to use the HI logo on the front of the boat? My intuition says that they were just holding out for Chinese tour groups because that's where the real money is, but I will email HI and YHA just in case.

I should also add that the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel is located about an hour's bus ride from the train station and quite a drag to find, especially if you are carrying a big pack. I was quite p.o.'d at having to return all the way back to Shengli Square to find a luguan (cheapest one from a tout for 35rmb), since there are no other affordable accomodations in the area.

It's a real pity that the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel does not allow foreigners, or that any hotel in China has the right to refuse western guests because of the color of our skin, but I hope leaving this post will start some change.

I added a cautionary note about the place on the district page, under Sleep. Then I noticed that the other hostel listed (Haiyun International Youth Hostel) matches the (rather distinctive) description and address of DSRYH; the phone number matches too. So this has to be the same place. Another suspicious fact is that the HIYH listing says it's a member of Hosteling Intl, but HI doesn't list any hostels in Dalian. So... remove the listing? Take out the apparently false claim of HI membership? Add the cautionary note about alleged discrimination to the HIYH listing? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 20:46, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

Given the fact that we now have two editors reporting the same problem, I think we have an obligation to include a warning about it, both in the main article for the city and the listing in the district article for the hostel that was identified specifically. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 10:04, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

I think the way it's stated now in the district article is sufficient... doesn't really warrant mention in the main article, i don't think. I thought those editors were one in the same, trying to add weight to their case... but maybe I'm being cynical – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 15:09, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

I saw billboard ads for the ship that had the HI symbol Thursday. Unfortunately I lost my camera and all the pictures I took. There was one sign on the ship in a stairwell that had the symbol. The ship is also a museum and the museum pass I bought allowed me to walk through the area with the rooms and see inside the rooms, but there was no one there who spoke English. (WT-en) Gbleem 01:43, 30 July 2007 (EDT)

Trying to delete portions in Eat that are about hostels, as well as migrate the hostel info. to the appropriate district page, but each time I click on ANY edit button (including the master one at the top of the article), I don't see that text listed. Anyone can advise?(WT-en) Zepppep 15:20, 30 November 2009 (EST)

Seems to have been a Wiki(WT-en) Zepppep 15:22, 30 November 2009 (EST)travel cache issue.

I called the number and the woman told me how to get there. I got lost but I had a local call the number and then write the name in Chinese which helped a great deal. I showed it to people who directed me to the dorm. When I got there I was told no but fortunately the girl who showed me to the dorm was able to get the woman I talked to and they let me stay. I don't know if that's policy or if they were just being nice. I thought she said 30 RMB per night. I suppose I'll find out when I leave. They did take a 100 RMB deposit. The rooms are OK and the bedding seems clean. There is a shared bathroom on my hallway, a washing machine, and showers are in the basement. (WT-en) Gbleem 08:11, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 06:35, 23 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

No, I like the current banner a lot better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:08, 23 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

This is an incompletely districted article. Dalian/Ganjingzi is pitiful and just about useless and Dalian/Shahekou is of modest length. That leaves Dalian/Xigang and especially Dalian/Zhongshan. So the problem is really twofold: (1) Can the existing district articles that are short to almost nonexistent be fleshed out satisfactorily? (2) Can the pretty well-developed content in the other two be folded nicely back into the main article? There is also a third issue, which is that the remaining districts mentioned in Dalian#Districts have no articles at all.

Anyone have an idea of how to get us out of this mess?

Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:03, 5 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

I think we should remerge for now and then try to redraw district lines based on geo coordinates at some future date. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

Perhaps that's the lesser of two evils right now. Should the listings be subdivided by district when merged into the main article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:45, 29 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

I think this is a terminology issue. Dalian City (in terms of Chinese administration boundaries and this article) would be known as a region in any European or North American article and some of the districts would be city articles or regions themselves. If these articles were cities and not districts then you just have under-developed city articles. Rephrasing Dalian as a region though would be a little work. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:29, 31 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

OK, but we have some undistricted city articles in China that encompass entire counties or regions - most obviously, Chongqing, but also arguably Tianjin (both municipalities that are directly controlled by the central government, along with Beijing and Shanghai, and not part of any province). I don't think that turning this article into a region and maintaining the undeveloped district articles as city articles is a good solution, and in fact, I don't think it solves anything. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:00, 31 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

We've so far reached an impasse and nothing has happened. I posted a pointer from Requests for comment. I'd like some followup. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

I'd say let's move the content back from the districts to the main article. We can subdivide sections with listings into districts if it's useful for our readers to know where these places are at a glance. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:57, 8 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

I tend to agree that that's the best alternative at this point. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:04, 8 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Any movement in either direction on this? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:50, 22 September 2018 (UTC)Reply

Personally, I'm actually in favour of keeping the district articles because I'm fairly certain that there's quite a bit that I at least (if no-one else) can do to improve them. It will take some time of course, but already I've added 20 new listings to the Jinzhou District article and 5 to the Ganjingzi District article (never mind that many of the new listings are stubs; I'll add more meat to them later). STW932 (talk) 16:20, 13 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Excellent. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:31, 13 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

By the time I see this page, Changxing Island is in the part of "See" with Golden Pebble Beach and Lvshun in the "Go next"section. Actually Changxing Island is much farther and inconvient to get than the other two places. Going to either of the two places by public transport shouldn't take more than 1.5h (As a native, I take these two routes really often). However driving to Changxing Island takes around 2h (My rides from the city to the island, from 1.8h to 3h). So I do think the two places should be considered as parts of the city. Visitors to Golden Pebble Beach and Lvshun can manage to come back to the city in a day but those who paid a visit to Changxing Island can't. The same as Xiangshui Temple which is inside the Jinzhou New District which is at most 40 minutes from the city center. Also asked some locals about this and most of them (16 of 18) agreed this. May include some mistakes above and I apologize for them.--Xwn0122 (talk) 15:41, 7 March 2018 (UTC)Reply

This issue has been resolved. --STW932 (talk) 05:11, 7 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

I recently created an article on Zhuanghe, which is linked from the Districts section of this page. But for some reason, on the mobile version of this page, the link is still red. Can someone fix this? There is no such problem with the desktop version. --STW932 (talk) 05:28, 7 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

I see that the problem is now fixed. It's not clear who did it or how, but thanks a lot. --STW932 (talk) 04:16, 9 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

http://www.dalianbus.com redirected from "By Bus" is not an official website for Dalian Passenger Transport Co.,Ltd, the bus company for Dalian urban area. It can provide information for bus services, but not the accurate ones. http://www.dlbus.com.cn is the official site. However, none of them is now providing English Services. It is even easier to use a map app and a translation app together than using them! (the map apps like Baidu provides point-to-point route advice and frequent updates while the websites don't)
p.s. some unofficial Wechat accounts provide Chinese and English service maps, but it may not be as easy to use for a foreigner as the method mentioned. --Xwn0122 (talk) 06:16, 22 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

I would suggest linking the official Chinese-language site and then stating how visitors who don't read Chinese could best get accurate information. The traveller comes first trumps other policies in this kind of situation. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:38, 22 December 2018 (UTC)Reply