Talk:Finland Voyage Tips and guide

We mention Google Maps, Apple Maps, Opas.matka.fi and Reittiopas.matkahuolto.fi in the lead of Get around here. Do we need to mention them at lower levels? We do link Matkahuolto.fi and VR.fi, as I think those are the canonical sites for coaches and trains, but I am unhappy about the wording "Matka.fi includes information about few services to nearby ruralside." in e.g. Kristinestad. Does it find any connections not found by Matkahuolto? What connections? If it is the best site for some connections, I'd like to know what connections those are, so that I can remove the link if they cease to exist. If we just guess there might be such connections, I think it is enough to mention the site here. I'd love to have a link somewhere, where pros and cons of those aggregators are discussed (Wikipedia? A travel topic? A project page?). A summary of that discussion should appear here in Get in; we have something, but as I don't know them, what I have written is very vague, and others don't seem to have done much better. –LPfi (talk) 15:56, 3 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Historic destinations in Finland are mentioned in Swedish Empire, Russian Empire and World War II in Europe. Should we have an article which covers Finland's history as an independent country? /Yvwv (talk) 17:37, 11 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

If somebody is going to write it, just go ahead. However, I don't like stubs, and getting the right focus is not necessarily easy. And I am not planning to be a main author of it.

I don't think the article should be restricted to independent Finland though: the national awakening was during Russian times, and the foundation of Finland lies in the Swedish times. Leaving those out feels weird, history-less or something worse. The linked articles mention Finnish history, but I have tried to keep the Finnish part small, as it is not the focus in them; there is much more to tell. I don't think some duplication is a problem.

–LPfi (talk) 19:05, 11 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm also not opposed to such an article but don't feel inspired like writing any major portions of it and I don't see much point in having a stub article of just a couple paragraphs. --Ypsilon (talk) 19:55, 11 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I removed a sentence on R kiosks, as it ignored the Matkahuolto partners, which do provide ticket sale. Perhaps R kiosks providing ticket sale should be reinstated somewhere, but I didn't find a nice place and I don't know to what extent they do provide such service. Is it just that many R kiosks are Matkahuolto partners? Do all R kiosks provide it? Through a partnership with Matkahuolto, so that they provide the same service, or by their own agreements with a number of coach companies? The kiosks do sell most of VR's tickets, but that should be told in By train, not in By bus (and is told there). –LPfi (talk) 09:38, 12 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

At least Onnibus tickets seem to be available purchased from R-kiosks, but it does not mention Matkahuolto tickets in general.

https://www.r-kioski.fi/palvelut/matkustaminen/ Kattimattinen (talk) 15:13, 18 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

From that page it seems that the R chain has a general agreement with some companies. The chain does not sell coach or bus tickets in general, just HSL and Onnibus ones. HSL is handled in Helsinki – or should be, there are deficiencies at least for some regional traffic – and Onnibus tickets should be bought on the net. I assume you get the Onnibus tickets also from Matkahuolto partners, if needed. –LPfi (talk) 16:16, 18 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

How many music festivals should we mention here, which ones are important? I admit that this is not an area of competence for me, but I have never heard about Kuopiorock, Nummirock, Qstock or Sauna Open Air, which now are mentioned as "some of the most notable festivals of popular music". If we remove three of those we come down to 7±2. –LPfi (talk) 06:24, 3 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

We now say in Local transport that

"With Matkahuolto Routes and Tickets app you can find a right route with route planner and after it purchase the right ticket from the app for the route.

I don't have the app, but on the page Matkahuolto links to with the claim that

"Matkahuolto will provide you with an appropriate bus ticket for all your trips."

I found two services for today (line 709; an Ely-keskus service) between TYKS and Turku Cathedral, where buses travel more like a dozen an hour. I am suspicious whether the app will be able to give me the ticket to any of those other services.

We already link to the app in the general discussion before the subsection. I revert the addition for now, pending confirmation that one indeed can buy all local tickets with the app.

–LPfi (talk) 11:08, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

This page shows the list of local transport regions where the app sells tickets. Föli region is not yet included for some reason.

https://www.matkahuolto.fi/matkustajat/reitit-ja-liput-mobiilisovellus

~ 83.102.39.142 14:45, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

So let's us not pretend they cover all the country. I see 19 such "regions" (I don't think they are regions, rather transportation systems). I have no idea how many there are in Finland. I see no indication any part of Finland Proper, Western Uusimaa (except for HSL), the Ostrobothnias (except Kokkola) or Lapland (apart from Rovaniemi) would be covered. I'd say that means they cover only select parts of the country. –LPfi (talk) 16:40, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

For the fifth year in a row, Finland has been ranked the happiest country in the world. Should we note that on this page somewhere? (And perhaps in Nordic countries, I think the other ones also rank high. For a discussion on the topic, see e.g. Jan-Otto Andersson: Why is Finland the Happiest Country in the World? –LPfi (talk) 10:45, 23 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'd say yes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:52, 23 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'd also say yes to both mentioning it here and in Nordic countries. FWIW, the other four Nordic countries also have pretty high happiness ratings, enough to be mentioning in the subcontinental article. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:04, 23 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Remember that this is subjective though. Some people will say that the happiest country in the world is actually Bhutan. The dog2 (talk) 15:31, 23 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Which should be (and is, right?) mentioned in the Bhutan article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Also, this is the World Happiness Report 2022 by the Sustainable Development Solutions Network. You can argue about how happiness was defined and measured, but here the subjective feeling of having a good situation has been measured uniformly across some 150 countries in a series of serious studies. Finland (like the Nordic countries in general) has long been at the top of several well-being indexes: first at "wealth and wellbeing" in 2009, first at "best opportunity to live a healthy, safe, reasonably prosperous, and upwardly mobile life" in 2010, the country with the least perceived corruption (if memory serves) in several years etc. Finland might not be the happiest country (suicide rate is still high, although it has decreased a lot in the last 30 years), but there is something that all these measures tend to catch. –LPfi (talk) 07:04, 24 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

The list of popular music festivals (festari) had grown to twelve, despite the HTML comment of "no more than ten". I moved out Tangomarkkinat and changed to "no more than nine" (why would this list be an exception, by one?), but two still need to be removed, which ones? The current list is:

• Sauna Open Air (Tampere). Early June. Heavy metal.
• Provinssirock (Seinäjoki). Mid-June. Rock.
• Nummirock (Nummijärvi, near Kauhajoki). Midsummer. Heavy metal.
• Raumanmeren juhannus (Pori). Midsummer. Pop/disco music.
• Tuska Open Air (Helsinki). Late June. Heavy metal.
• Ruisrock (Turku). July. Rock.
• Ilosaarirock (Joensuu). Mid-July. Rock, pop, reggae.
• Kuopiorock (Kuopio). Late-July. Heavy metal, rock, pop.
• Pori Jazz (Pori). Mid-July. Jazz and world music.
• Flow (Helsinki). Mid-August. Indie/electronic/urban.
• Qstock (Oulu). End of July. Rock, pop, rap

–LPfi (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

They can be listed in Nordic music. /Yvwv (talk) 12:42, 4 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I would favour moving all the music festivals be moved to Nordic music leaving only a brief summarised paragraph on this page. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:46, 4 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I am neutral on whether to move the listings, but I think the summary shouldn't be brief; instead there should be enough text here for people to understand what kind of events they are, apart from the musical experience. Perhaps one should also elaborate on the local amateurs vs. international stars dimension. I think a few paragraphs could be reasonable. –LPfi (talk) 13:23, 4 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

There seems to be several festivals during Midsummer. Should those be suggested for travellers who aren't invited to a cottage over Midsummer? We should also point out some villages that have good traditional Midsummer events (I think Nagu has one, but much water has flowed under the bridges since I heard about it). Then there are those arranged by cities; I think Turku has one (in the city? at Saaronniemi?). What about Helsinki? –LPfi (talk) 13:33, 4 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

The list is heavy (no pun intended) on rock/metal festivals so some of those could go. Even as those are the first thing that comes to my mind when hearing "music festival" in a Finnish context.

In Helsinki there's a low-key Midsummer festival with a bonfire at Seurasaari (Fölisön), mentioned in Helsinki#June. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:10, 4 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Good (I had a faint memory of it being arranged). I think we might want to mention it here as an example. I wonder, should we expand the holidays section? We don't have much advice on where and how to celebrate the holidays. The Christmas season is explained quite well in Winter in the Nordic countries, but there is no place where the others are expanded on (Easter could use some additional content). Midsummer isn't even mentioned in Nordic countries! –LPfi (talk) 17:31, 4 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yes, we could expend the Holidays section with some general tips, individual festivities are best added to the city articles.

The Nordic countries article doesn't seem to have a Holidays section to put Midsummer in (it's celebrated in the Baltic countries too, BTW). Maybe it there could be one with bigger holidays celebrated in one or several Nordic countries but not elsewhere (Midsummer, Lucia, Finland and Norway have fairly visible independence day celebrations...). Ypsilon (talk) 18:00, 4 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I just reverted an edit saying that English is most widely spoken in big cities. I'd want that handled once and for all, or get my understanding challenged.

It is true in most places that people in cities know foreign languages better than in the countryside. For Finland, though, I doubt that's something worth mentioning. In the towns I know more than superficially, I would be surprised to find anyone born since the 1960s (except children) not to be more or less fluent in English. People learn the language in school, and at the same time by watching TV and using the internet. The language education is good enough – and the connection to the language in one's circle of friends close enough – that there is no steep barrier to move on to an international world from national chatrooms. Anybody studying at university (and that's half the population) will have some course literature in English, many will have workmates from abroad, and most people, academic or not, travel abroad, where English will be the language they use (unless they are fluent in the local language, which mostly is weaker than their English).

You might find some place where your communication in English will be severely restricted, and those might tend to be in small towns in the countryside, where few have an academic education and a foreigner is seldom seen. I could imagine that few of the people in the pub of Pelkosenniemi would speak English fluently (that might be my prejudice). However in towns or small cities like Pargas, Jakobstad and Lappeenranta, many people deal with foreigners in their professional roles, and a young person not knowing English would be kind of an outsider as they would be excluded from much of the popular culture.

–LPfi (talk) 10:07, 7 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

As inspired by the work by a Finnish user editing from IPs (e.g. Special:Contributions/91.158.155.148) over the last few years, and my own thoughts from almost 7 years ago, I'm starting up articles for the remaining ~80 cities and municipalities that don't have one. Some are possibly better combined like in Turku countryside, or if a small municipality is right next to a larger city a redirect could work. They can always be split off as separate articles later. Aiming for usable status and at least 3000 bytes in size for each article. Ypsilon (talk) 16:33, 3 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

A great project, Ypsilon. These contributions tend to go under the radar, but is just as useful as getting a major city to star status – I hope I'll be able to use this information when I visit Finland in two years time. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:33, 4 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Nice. I think aiming at useful is good. We have quite some Finnish articles that are useful only to people passing by anyway, and for towns off thoroughfares such travellers are few. If there is enough substance to make some people visit the place, then everything above that is much more valuable. Thus priority could be given to places that have something of special interest or happen to be near some major sight or highway. Still, covering whole regions and eventually all the country would be very nice.

The main tourist destinations in Finland, I heard, are Helsinki, Lapland, the "archipelago" (the Archipelago Sea?) and the Lakeland (random order). Of these, the Lakeland has weak coverage, while all places along the Saimaa waterways could be visited by somebody renting a boat or a canoe (places with steamer access should be checked specifically), and similarly e.g. the Rautalampi Route (for which only Rautalampi has an article). A visitor could also rent a cottage in any municipality, and to cover the main sights and services there would be very useful for them. If we cover some such theme adequately, it can be made visible by links from the region and country articles (and topics such as Boating in Finland).

–LPfi (talk) 07:41, 4 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@LPfi, Ypsilon: There are also 155 outline articles categorised under Finland (inc. Åland) – should we create a branch from Wikivoyage:Nordic countries Expedition specifically to improve Finnish articles? I'll be happy to join in and add more listings from online sources to these articles. We could also use the same page and do what I did on Wikivoyage:Australia Expedition to bring all articles categorised under New South Wales to usable (which was just keeping a personal track by changing the link every time). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:19, 4 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

I'd say Helsinki and Lapland are the two top places for visitors from further away (flying in). For people arriving by ferry also Turku with surroundings. Until COVID and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, also a great number of Russians mainly from St. Petersburg and surroundings used to hop across the border to places like Lappeenranta or Kotka. The rest of the country does of course also see international visitors (especially if they're driving), but the average guest, say, at a lakeside cottage or a small-town hotel would be domestic.

I'm planning to add them little by little, maybe a couple of these articles every day, starting with the municipalities that have city status. Didn't intend this as an expedition or anything, just thought I would add a note as to why I'm creating new articles with relatively little content, but of course everyone is welcome to help out. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Sure thing – in the meantime, I'll be adding listings to the many outline articles, starting with the city articles. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:55, 4 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

DONE! Yay! Even though they're just barely usable (Get in, see, eat, sleep). But now they can be filled in little by little according to wikivoyagers' time and motivation, perhaps translate some content from Finnish Wikivoyage etc. I unified some smaller municipalities that were next to each other into rural areas, and redirected some that either had no place to sleep or are just a few kilometers from a nearby town. Ypsilon (talk) 18:06, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Onneksi olkoon! A great achievement! Ground Zero (talk) 18:11, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Nice – good progress, and one step closer for Finland to be a good-quality guide article. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 22:32, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Nice! For some of the combined municipalities, there is now little info on the smaller (or whatever) one. In some, checking their tourist site allows easily adding some listings. The {{mapframe}} parameters, the Understand, Get in and Get around also need some amendments, to really accommodate them. –LPfi (talk) 08:18, 23 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Jpatokal: The sentence "However, water of fountains is usually not potable." was removed in a recent edit. In some (?) countries with hot weather, there are public fountains providing drinking water. In Finland, I haven't seen any outdoor fountains with this function; they are purely decorative and the water is often recycled, with whatever happens to end up in the basin. I am not sure how common fountains that could be mistaken for the former are, but I thought it is better to be safe than sorry. Was there some specific reason for the deletion? –LPfi (talk) 09:31, 26 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

It seemed like a case of Captain Obvious to me: I wouldn't assume a decorative fountain anywhere is potable unless signposted as such, and even then it's usually an obvious tap etc, not the entire thing. Jpatokal (talk) 12:09, 26 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

While I like the current banner's motif, I'm not in love with the unsharp/hazy objects + island in the background. Here are three other banners that I've cropped. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:30, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

As much as I love sunsets, the current banner could be anywhere. None of these says "Finland" to me, but I've only visited Helsinki. Visually, my choices would be, in order, 3, 2, 1, but I would defer to anyone with more knowledge of the country. Ground Zero (talk) 08:09, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

I haven't been to Finland, either, but I think all these banners are good, including the current one. My somewhat ignorant ranking is 3, 2, 1, 0. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:18, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

I kind of agree: the current banner's motif represents one aspect of Finland, but the actual banner doesn't tell much to somebody for whom the associations don't come automatically (a boat, probably by somebody's summer cottage, the famous lake Päijänne at Sysmä at sunset, which is loved also by Finns).

Banner 1 is a different but similar crop from the photo used as banner for Lapland. Banner two represents the Finnish lakes and islands in a way similar to the current banner, but without the (implied) cottage and the sunset. It is a very typical view for Finns spending their summer vacation. Banner 3 is from northern Lapland (in autumn, with Norway on the right side of the river); while Lapland is popular also among Finns, these are views you won't find in the south (as is the fell in banner 1, but otherwise such desolate places might be found also elsewhere).

All these are countryside and natural landscapes (with small hints of human presence, such as the boat and the building). While a view like banner 2 could be had from Helsinki or Tampere, they represent what you get when travelling farther. I think that's the experience we should try to convey, and mixing in urban elements would spoil it. Thus, a visitor to Helsinki won't recognise what they saw – and somebody from Canada probably could feel at home in the landscapes.

–LPfi (talk) 09:33, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

I'd defer to your local knowledge, but don't most people visit Finland for its nature? Also, I wouldn't want to have a banner of Helsinki similar to how I wouldn't want a banner of London for the United Kingdom (see my comment on Talk:United Kingdom), Toronto/Montreal for Canada or Sydney/Melbourne for Australia. But any other crop suggestions? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:41, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I think that most people visit Finland for its nature and that the nature is what we want to highlight. There are of course lots of people who visit just Helsinki, for work, on a cruise, because of the airport or, in good times, because of the railway from Russia, but that can be saved for the Helsinki banner. For this banner, I agree that those above are nice, and I don't have any other suggestions. I would like a lake photo, but it is very difficult to catch the impression; when I try I just get a lot of water in the picture (easier by painting, but I haven't done that for ages). –LPfi (talk) 11:05, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

(off-topic) Ooh, you used to paint lakes? That's cool and impressive! --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:12, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Not anything serious, but that were the landscapes I liked best – and we did have a seaside summer cottage (seems I match quite some Finnish stereotypes). –LPfi (talk) 11:25, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Banner 2 strongly reminds me of the view from the cottage I visit near Bobcaygeon. Ground Zero (talk) 15:09, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

I used banner 0 for Sysmä. A relevant duplicate banner can be preferred before no banner. /Yvwv (talk) 15:14, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

I actually like the current banner. Like LPfi said, if we decide to replace it, a banner with a lake in it would be best but IMO also coniferous forests would do. Mountainous landscapes one would find in (northern) Lapland do look impressive but they do not represent most of the country. --Ypsilon (talk) 15:17, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

I prefer banner 1 because it has a bit of mountain & forest as well as just lake. Pashley (talk) 15:31, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes, and I think the feeling of it represents something important for many Finns, something that can be shared by visitors. It is also good in that it wouldn't that easily be confused with Sweden and Norway (I assume they have similar landscapes, but not among the stereotypical ones).

It should not be too difficult to find another banner image for Lapland, if we decide to change the Finland banner and use that one.

–LPfi (talk) 06:43, 24 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Banner 2 is by far my favorite. Banners 0 and 1 appear to have less clarity to me, while I'd have chosen banner 3 if not for the highway which (to my eyes) spoils the continuity of the landscape. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 17:06, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Since the beginning of this year, this article has grown by 15% in length, and it is now the longest country article in all of English Wikivoyage -- longer than our article for the U.S., China, India. It is great to have so much information for travellers, but the article's length makes that information less accessible to readers. Is it time to start transferring some information to other articles, creating travel topic articles for Finland, and trimming some of the lengthier passages to provide a more concise, livelier article? Ground Zero (talk) Ground Zero (talk) 13:00, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Perhaps. I assume there is some cruft that should simply be cut away, and some less relevant info, also best removed. It is hard for me to judge though.

I have long thought about cutting down the Stay safe and Stay healthy, but haven't really got to it. Also Get around is much too long, but I see less obviously unnecessary info there, except that By car could be left for Driving in Finland with only a paragraph or so here. The section on sauna is mostly identical with Sauna, and country-specific info could perhaps fit there, as the concept is so connected to this one country.

Skimming through the article now, I see many parts that could be condensed without loosing much, but also things that may or may not be obvious or general enough to be removed or moved to an international travel topic. The problem with the latter is that one needs foreign eyes to discern what exactly is obvious for an overseas foreigner.

–LPfi (talk) 13:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for doing some trimming.

Could the "unobvious rules" be moved to the Driving in Finland article?

The Eat section is very long. Is it time for a Finnish cuisine article? Or can some content be moved to Nordic cuisine?

Could the Learn section also be branched off to Studying in Finland?

Could the Work section be branched off to Working in Finland?

Branching off articles like these often leads to more content being added that contributors might hesitate to add to a national article, like example of universities that cater to foreign students.

Ground Zero (talk) 13:26, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

The Finland#Social dancing section is also very long for a pastime that will appeal to relatively foreign visitors. Can we move much of the text somewhere else? Ground Zero (talk) 13:36, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

I agree that we should move content from "Learn" and "Work" to separate articles. There is definitely enough content in those sections for standalone articles. I'd also guess (and correct me if I'm wrong here) that most tourists to Finland are not coming for work or study. Therefore, I'd consider this a rather separate, niche topic that could be covered separately from the mainstream of Nordic travel, which I think someone said on this website recently was primarily for the national parks and such. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 14:32, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes, those topics could be moved to their own articles with just a paragraph or two here. The Eat section is indeed really long, so it, and the Drink section could certainly make up a Finnish cuisine article. Many of the rules related to studying and working are to my understanding common around the EU so maybe a Working in the European Union and Studying in the European Union (or just in Europe) would be better, those could be expanded with specifics for working and studying in other European countries. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:12, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes. I think:

• For driving, I already pruned the list. I think those I left are important for foreigners driving here, if they really are unobvious, which I don't know. One option is thinking that anybody that will drive here should read the Driving in article and leaving only stuff for choosing whether to drive.
• There seems to be enough content for a Cuisine article – most of that described is unique for Finland. Much of the section should still be kept here.
• There is no harm in creating specialised articles for Learn and Work. Those who might work or study should know that and click the link. While many rules are common for all EU (and probably Norway & co), I believe Russia (& co) is different. And there is a lot of national stuff, including nearly anything now included.
• There is Social dancing. Perhaps a section on Finland is acceptable; although it gets undue weight there, some could probably be generalised instead of writing similar sections on other regions.
• The outdoor life section is a bit unorganised, but I don't have a clear picture about what foreigners do. We now cater well (I hope) for those who visit national parks independently, more than expected for those (few?) going to some random wood to pick berries and enjoy their time there. Most foreigners coming for the nature probably do so on a package tour, and I don't know how to compete for that crowd.

–LPfi (talk) 16:16, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Good ideas. For "Eat," I suggest moving the individual menu items to Finnish cuisine while keeping the generalized information about customs within this article. From there, we can incorporate information to both articles as appropriate. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 20:10, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

I wouldn't be surprised if we reached a point where we had to branch of Finnish cuisine from Nordic cuisine. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

I think there is enough material for an independent cuisine article for Finland already: the content now in Finland#Eat and Finland#Drink is enough for that, and very little of it is common with the other Nordic countries. What's about Finland in Nordic cuisine is well and OK – we do share a lot – but that part isn't really in Finland#Eat now. –LPfi (talk) 08:54, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Moved over and restructured a bit, with a few additions. I cut down on some that became redundant in Finland, but some more should probably be removed. –LPfi (talk) 11:38, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Wow, thank you! I would say that article is close to guide status. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 13:44, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

The article is improved, but it still has a lot of information that will be of interest only to a narrow group of readers. I have started Studying in Finland, which would benefit from attention from contributors who know more about the subject. I would note that our Studying in" articles are intended to ge about post-secondary education, as primary/secondary education is out of the scope of Wikivoyage. Ground Zero (talk) 12:36, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

At the beginning of this discussion I wrote:

"Branching off articles like these often leads to more content being added that contributors might hesitate to add to a national article, like example of universities that cater to foreign students."

In the 18 hours after I branched off the Studying in Finland article, its content was was expanded by 50%. Thanks to User:LPfi. Ground Zero (talk) 11:43, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply