Talk:Transnistria Voyage Tips and guide

I'd suggest restoring the infobox -- regardless of legal niceties, Transnistria is as de-facto independent as, say, Northern Cyprus. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:04, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

Currently, this article is not listed on the Eastern Europe page, but is listed under Moldova#Regions as a "territorial unit" together with the explanation "...break-away region east of the Dniester River, on the Ukrainian border, where Russian forces are supporting the Slavic minority population, mostly Ukrainians and Russians, who have proclaimed a unrecognized "Transnistria" republic."

So I changed the isIn back from {{isIn|Eastern_Europe}} to {{isIn|Moldova}} for hierarchical (and geographic?) consistency - if this isn't appropriate, maybe Transnistria could/should be added to the Eastern Europe page. ~ 203.144.143.8 06:28, 21 December 2006 (EST)

Mf. I hate issues like this, but my thinking is that while some Transnistrians would violently object to being "in" Romania, pretty much everybody can agree that it is in Eastern Europe. De facto, for the traveller, it is a separate country — but as Moldova claims it, it should also be listed under Moldova. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:03, 21 December 2006 (EST)

I just performed a very lengthy update of the entire page. I'm a volunteer with an NGO stationed in Moldova, and I travel to Transnistria quite a bit. It's a great place, but it also presents a lot of problems for travellers. I've added quite a bit about the border crossings to the page, and have fleshed out many of the other sections based on my experiences and on the experiences of others foreign nationals who have attempted to travel in Transnistria. I don't normally edit Wikipedia, so I have no account. But you can check this IP! It's Moldova! 83.218.213.6 08:37, 5 February 2007 (EST)

I hope you (or someone else) can update the article again. The following sentences are contradictory — it's a strain to see how both quotes could be true: "Due to the ongoing hostilities with Moldova proper (since July 2004), it is generally not advisable to travel there," and "And despite the political situation with Moldova, there is essentially no threat of being caught in a military action. As of this writing (Feb. 2007), there has not been fighting in Transnistria for almost 15 years." 68.127.171.94 00:37, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

Hello, I have travelled three times to Transnistria and I have always used the train Odessa-Tiraspol, which runs frequently. I have heard of infrequent disruption of trains between Moldova and Transnistria, but as far as I'm aware the trains between Odessa and Transnistria run.

About bribes: During my time in Transnistria (altogether more than two months) I had never needed to bribe any policemen, soldiers etc. The situation is much worse in Ukraine or Moldova. 84.171.201.175 April 2008

I have travelled to Priednestrovie about five times, crossing the border pretty much every way that is possible, and I never paid a bribe or heard of someone paying a bribe. If anything I was met with more respect and professionalism by the border police than in Ukraine and Moldova. This article is full of prejudice, russophobia and unnecessarily scares tourists. (Unregistered User, February/2022) —The preceding comment was added by 79.136.41.98 (talk • contribs)

Dear Mr./Ms./Mx. Unregistered User: Would you like to complain about an article on a Wiki that anyone can edit, or would you like to edit anything in the article that is inaccurate? Though having established already that you have a chip on your shoulder, it would be better for you to itemize the things you consider inaccurate and get a consensus behind changing them. You have to be willing to respect consensus to participate on a Wiki, and you've already insulted what the preexisting consensus has written in this article and established that you have a motive to scrub anything remotely negative from the article even if it were accurate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:24, 16 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I removed the parts about bribes at border crossings -- I crossed the border without any hassle, and I take the anon editor's statement about border crossings at face value. I ignored the rest of their rant as there was nothing specific in question. Ground Zero (talk) 19:17, 16 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I could not find any reports people have ever had problems because of this. If there are, please point them out! After all, there will be an entry/exit stamp from Ukraine, containing date and name of the Ukraine/Transnistria border crossing so it is obvious how the passport holder has entered/left the country. I have traveled UA-PMR-MD-UA this January (2011) and wasn't even asked any questions on leaving MD. That said, I'd like to remove/rephrase this "warning" accordingly as it'll only worry people needlessly. (WT-en) T 18:05, 15 January 2011 (EST)

Reports state that moves are now afoot to make Transnistria part of Russia, just like Crimea. We need to watch and act accordingly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:44, 23 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

• We keep on watching. Ibaman (talk) 20:03, 4 July 2018 (UTC)Reply
• As of 2020, we keep watching. Ibaman (talk) 17:18, 13 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

... still watching. Ibaman (talk) 20:11, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Russia's a bit busy lately, as I think you've noticed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:15, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

yeah, but not in this region, so far, contrary to many expectations, including mine (Donetsk and Lugansk have been claimed to be officially annexed into Russia but Transnistria has not; I was kinda expecting some such military or official action since 2014, actually but, alas, nothing has happened). Let me also express my happiness about the Pridnestrovie name-pushing by anonymous IPs being long inactive here AND in Wikipedia. Ibaman (talk) 20:26, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

You were hoping for death and destruction (military action)? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:58, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

oh please IK. You know me. I would never "hope" or "cheer" for something like this, I was aware of the possibility and vigilant whether it might or would happen. Listening closely for news and their ramifications. Ready to replicate here any official statements or developments relevant for travellers.

I'm actually glad to mark the time that the war never came close to Transnistria, hopefully it never will. Just look at this timeline, since 2014 we were FEARING for something like this to happen. Yet, it didn't, and this, yes, makes me glad. At a personal level, my main hope is that the conflict be over and the region can be safe for travel and tourism again. Ibaman (talk) 21:23, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

I know you, but I also know you're pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian. But in this case, you misused the word "alas." Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

For Wikivoyage:Geographical hierarchy, we should follow the principles of Wikivoyage:The traveller comes first, with regards to transportation, immigration rules, and other practical concerns. Transnistria has no land connection or scheduled transport to Russia proper, and will probably remain as such. Kaliningrad is an exclave, but is an integrated part of Russia, and still has scheduled transportation to Russia proper, though the sanctions have complicated the situation. Crimea is a similar case, though the Russian occupation violates international law, but this can change on short notice. /Yvwv (talk) 21:59, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Any information on how safe it is to visit this area in 2018? Marathonian (talk) 19:07, 24 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

I visited in September this year, and it felt as safe as other European countries. Ground Zero (talk) 20:07, 24 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

Mostly safe. Be careful with taking pictures of administrative buildings, police, military, and anything related to that (Moldova is even more paranoic, so Transnistria may feel more relaxed if you go there after Chisinau). You may encounter youngsters who roam around and sometimes approach strangers in a rather annoying manner, but they should be harmless unless you provoke them. And they probably won't be able to speak English.

Do not overstay. Better ask registration for a longer period than you actually need, or make sure that you leave on time. --Alexander (talk) 20:47, 24 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

Why doesn't this article have any, unlike other country or region level articles? 147.147.52.22 22:10, 10 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

Because no-one added one, I guess? Perhaps you'd like to add one and add content to it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:44, 10 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

There are only three city articles for Transnistria. Why would it be subdivided? Unless, of course, more content were added, which would be supergood. Ground Zero (talk) 06:39, 11 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

I think you misread the thread-starter's question, which is why there's no "See" section in this country-level article. There should be one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:50, 11 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I missed the point entirely. Thanks for pointing that out. Ground Zero (talk) 07:06, 11 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

Every once in a while, since the beginning of this community, the occasional complaint about using the Latin or the Russian term for this region comes back again. I hope the newly-written "Respect" section is enough to keep everybody happy about this subject matter. Ibaman (talk) 20:55, 13 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

If "Transnistria" is so offensive, someone should tell the country's biggest tour operator, Transnistria Tour. Ground Zero (talk) 21:26, 13 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

What does Krasnoselsky have to do with it, when a tourist can simply be beaten up by random people because he said this "transnistria" just by negligence or ignorance? 31.31.13.73 21:56, 13 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

Can you provide evidence that this has happened? A link to a news report, for example? That would help. Thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 22:03, 13 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

• I'd like to elaborate on this discussion, as I happen to be Brazilian, speak Portuguese (that derives from Latin) as my mother tongue, and also happen to enjoy studying Russian language, history and culture. The standard term in Portuguese for the country is "Transnístria" (that is, "beyond the Dniester river"; from the geographical point of view of every Latin-derived language spoken inside Europe, it is indeed). Brazil's political situation right now is well-known on world news, with a right-wing government keen on spreading biased information through Twitter. There's a lot of misinformation going on about Ukraine and Syria et cetera. When I discuss world politics (which I do very often), I like to ask the interlocutor "Ever heard about Transnístria? (hardly any bolso-hooligan has ever. That's when I explain geography and history and language and present situation) By the way, don't use this name to their face, they call their land Pridnestrovie ("at this side of the Dniester river", the Russian geographical point of view)." I reckon it would be futile to dream the Latin term will become obsolete in a foreseeable future, specially when it comes to the Latin linguistic branch. I say this as a polyglot student. Speaking as a traveller, I hope I can one day get to know Tiraspol, preferably on a road trip from Kishinev to Odessa. Ibaman (talk) 23:03, 13 January 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • I'm fortunate to have been to Tiraspol, and really enjoyed my visit. I recommend the tour company that I linked above as they gave me great perspective on how people live in an unrecognized country. Also I recommend trying the Kvint brandy. It's really good. Ground Zero (talk) 02:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • This is actually not a Latin term, but a Romanian one ("Nistru" is the Romanian name for the Dniester River). It really literally translates as "through the Dniester", "on the other side of the Dniester" - of course, from Romania. And this term appeared as a designation of the territory of the modern Odessa region of Ukraine occupied by Romania during the Second World War, where they committed genocide of the civilian population, killing more than 300 thousand people. This term has nothing to do with the PMR, especially since this region lies on both sides of the Dniester River and even less so not "beyond the Dniester" (because it is not Romania). Local residents remember and know this very well, which is why I say that tourists should be warned not to offend people, because this word is an extremely rude and derogatory insult for the inhabitants of this country who suffered from the Romanian aggression in 1918-40, 1941-44 and in 1992. It can sadly end for them, then they will whine on the Internet in their stupid blogs, that Pridnestrovie is a barbaric country and what kind of evil and inhospitable people are there. I wonder if you, as a native speaker of the Portuguese language and a polyglot student, know where this word came from in your language? I understand that saying that this is an established term is stupid, because not even a fraction of the percent of native speakers have heard about Pridnestrovie, but you used exactly it. 31.31.13.73 08:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

Sure, we should clearly state that this term can offend, and I think a brief version of why also provides a useful context, but what is the likelihood of a foreigner who in most cases wouldn't know any better being physically attacked for using that name? The point really is to provide as strong a warning as necessary, but not to overstate things. If it's not likely for ignorant foreigners to be assaulted, what is likely? For them to be yelled at? Stared at hostilely? Or simply requested to use the other name, which will be harder for non-Slavs to pronounce but which they should certainly try saying? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:20, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

1234. Of course, no one was killed or crippled here to write about this in the news, but I have come across such conflicts more than once personally: today these ignorant "tourists" travel to Tiraspol with whole buses. And the reason is precisely in such articles on the Internet, which not very smart people perceive as common truth that does not need to be checked. 31.31.13.73 08:22, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

I've moved your reply to the bottom because it was the last reply. I understand why you put it where you did, but it's easier to follow discussions in a straight chronology. That said, please describe the conflicts you've witnessed. What happened? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

The biggest tour operator? All local tour operators work for the local population, organizing trips abroad. This is a small individual entrepreneur who advertised himself on the Internet. There are actually several of them, among the local population they are known for being associated with the organization of gay tourism. What else to expect from gay prostitutes, other than "transnistria"? 31.31.13.73 08:30, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

If you're trying to establish credibility by insulting people and making apparently anti-gay remarks, try a different method. I suggest you state very clearly what the consequences have been for foreigners using the term that a local travel agency - however you want to characterize them - also uses. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:37, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

By the way, this is also an important note: in Pridnestrovie one should not openly declare non-traditional sexual addictions and orientations, here such behavior is not understood; in general, sexual licentiousness is highly discouraged. However, this is characteristic of all countries of Russian culture. 31.31.13.73 08:55, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

In fact, the locals are quite friendly if they do not see malicious intent. Most likely, using their school knowledge of English, they will simply correct it: "Not transnistria, but Pridnestrovie". But if this tourist will be stubborn, even worse, if he starts to talk about Romania or Moldova, then it all depends on who he is talking with. People here are different too. Incidentally, I doubt that "Pridnestrovie" is more difficult to pronounce than the ugly Romanian word "transnistria" for any speaker. 31.31.13.73 08:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

Alright. So what do you think needs to be changed in the article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:45, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

The smartest thing is to correct the title of the article by setting the name of Pridnestrovie as title, to remove all references to "transnistria", with the exception of the comment about the insulting words. Although I understand that the local lobby of the Romanian nationalists will not allow this, so decide for yourself. 31.31.13.73 08:55, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

There is no such lobby at Wikivoyage. I would like you to read Wikivoyage:Naming conventions. As long as Transnistria is used more often in English than Pridnestrovie, we are duty-bound to use that as the title of the article, per site policy. So in view of that, what else do you think should be changed in the article in the interest of travelers? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:09, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

It exist at least in the English Wikipedia, and very aggressive. I’m here for the first time, so I don’t know yet, but I suspect that no discrepancies with Wikipedia are expected.

As for use: in English there is no established designation for Pridnestrovie. Just for the reason that almost none of the native speakers have even heard of this country. The term used is determined solely by context. You tell the common man Pridnestrovie or Transnistria - without explaining what you talking about, he simply won’t understand in any case.

The name "Transnistria" appeared in 1992 during the Moldovan-Pridnestrovian war, when the aggressive nationalists who came to power in Moldova needed to somehow name the breakaway state. It was then that they recalled the term of Romanian Nazi criminals, because they could not use the "Russian" name. Then it leaked to the West, because (for obvious reasons) the Western media broadcasted Romanian and Moldovan sources in connection with this war.

Over time, this word was almost forgotten: official sources used either "Stînga Nistrului" if it was about the administrative division of Moldova, or "PMR" if it was about the breakaway state itself. It received a “new life” with the spread of the Internet and the advent of Wikipedia, which became the main distributor of the term in the Internet environment. Refer to Wikipedia to confirm the meaning of the term in Wikipedia itself? It’s ridiculous.

In English, the most common name of the subject now is "Stînga Nistrului" or "Left bank of the Dniester", as follows from official documents of Moldova. This is natural, given that the main area where English is used in relation to this subject is the issue of resolving the frozen conflict and the diplomatic relations of the participants in the negotiation process, including EU and USA. All the use of "transnistria" comes down to Internet dumps, the source of which is Wikipedia, nothing more. To declare on this basis that the subject under discussion, which almost no one had ever heard of outside of ex-USSR, has some kind of an established designation in the language, it is simply meaningless. A designation may appear only with recognition of the independence of this state and the inclusion of its name in official norms and standards. Today we should be guided by the official documents of the state that is described here, and the self-name of the people, and not engage in promoting biased and offensive terminology.

While I await your reply: I think we can make the language in "Respect" a little stronger. How's this?

The term "Transnistria", with its Latin etymology, evokes memories of the brutal Romanian occupation during World War II and the Holocaust. According to president Vadim Krasnoselsky's statement in 2019, the Latin name is "unacceptable for Pridnestrovie", and "foreigners should get used to saying its true name".

I repeat: the etymology of this word is Romanian, even the prefix "trans-" is not Latin, but Romanian, borrowed from Latin. And in content, this term expresses the claims of the time of the Antonescu regime. We should indicate to travelers not only how this term is treated in the country, but also that it should not be used at all. 31.31.13.73 10:42, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

About LGBT folks being discreet: Sure that should be mentioned, but that doesn't mean people should be making anti-gay remarks on talk page threads. Is it better to add a caution for LGBT people in "Respect" or "Stay safe"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:21, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

I don’t think that fagots are so stupid as to go to Pridnestrovie and arrange gay parades. In my opinion, we can skip information about it, it’s better just about the inadmissibility of sexual licentiousness. 31.31.13.73 10:47, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

You are participating on an international board now. Continuing to use bigoted language will not be tolerated and could get you blocked from posting here. Keep your hatred and bigotry to yourself. And I studied a year of Latin. "Trans" is Latin for "across" and is indeed used as a prefix in Latin. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:12, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

And I've never heard of "Stînga Nistrului", so that's obviously not the term most often used in English. And please just post each new remark at the end of the thread, because it's hard to see your posts, otherwise. Wikivoyage explicitly does not use official names unless they are the most often used in English. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:15, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

• At this point I think it's useful to remember the example of Hungary, which in their own language is called the "Magyar Republic", and in every other language "the land of the Huns". They would like to correct this, and have been trying for more than a hundred years, unsuccessfully. I also have never heard of "Stînga Nistrului" and can testify that "Transnistria" is a very natural word in Portuguese, as it is in Spanish and Italian, as is "Transnistrie" in French. It's pure lingustics, nothing to do with any political bias whatsoever. Ibaman (talk) 11:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

I've been to Hungary, and I didn't know about this campaign. It's strange because Magyars clearly consider themselves in some ways a continuation of the Huns, in spite of the fact that the Huns were a Germanic tribe and the Magyars are not Germanic. Whereas Attila is a fearsome name outside of Hungary, Magyars consider him a national hero, and Attila is a very common man's name in Hungary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:31, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

I've never been to Hungary; my road trip took me from Bratislava to Vienna, Zagreb and Ljubljana, I passed along. So it seems I have just repeated a hearsay, and the Hungarians don't mind being called Hungarians. I'm glad to have brought up this example. Ibaman (talk) 11:59, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ After seeing the unregistered user's hateful comments, I no longer care what he thinks on this or any other topic. His comments show that he is just some ignorant bigot with an agenda to push. He should not feel welcome here. He should move on to some dark corner of the web where where his/her hatred will be acceptable. It isn't here. Ground Zero (talk) 12:19, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

Agreed, but with one caveat: The traveller comes first remains the guiding principle of this site, so if that means a slightly stronger caution about the name and a caution for LGBT people to be discreet, that's what should be in the article. So let's just agree on a form of words. I think you're the only registered user on this thread who's actually been to Transnistria. What do you think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:39, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

I've changed it a bit:

"The name "Transnistria", while commonly used in English, evokes memories of the brutal Romanian occupation during World War II and the Holocaust. President Vadim Krasnoselsky, in 2019, said that the Latin name is "unacceptable for Pridnestrovie", and "foreigners should get used to saying its true name". Calling the country by this name could avoid giving offense, and may win you friends."

What do you think?

As far as LGBT people, I don't know if there is any more concern there than any other country in the region. I wouldn't take the bigot's word for it. I was only there a couple of nights, and the issue didn't come up, but then husband and I don't wear rainbow-flag t-shirts when we travel. Ground Zero (talk) 17:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

I'm good with this. Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:05, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

Although I haven't been there, my understanding is that homosexuality is not as well-accepted in Russia and some of the former Soviet Union countries as it is in Western Europe. If people who are openly gay are likely to face harassment from locals, that is something we should state. That said, I highly doubt that the situation is as bad as in a place like Uganda, where most of the population wants to rape all lesbian women and kill all gay men.

As for the unregistered user, perhaps we should extend the ban to a permanent one, just as we did for ArticCynda. I think we should definitely make a strong statement that bigotry is not tolerated on this site. The dog2 (talk) 18:38, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

In Russia, there have been lots of cases of egregious attacks on and government persecution of LGBT people. Our article goes into some detail about this, appropriately. With this country, we have no reliable information. I don't think we would want to go much further than saying, "Like other countries in the region, there is less acceptance of LGBT people than in many developed countries." Ground Zero (talk) 18:59, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

The dog2, I don't think we can permaban an IP. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:28, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

The user in question is registered on Wikipedia, and tried to do the same exact additions to w:Transnistria and w:Names of Transnistria. So far, he's been | rolled back on all edits except his own talk page. I'm vigilant, and shall report any situation that might deserve some actoin from our part. Ibaman (talk) 19:36, 14 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Here's a travel vlog from an English tourist in the area: [1]. It doesn't look like using the name "Transnistria" got him assaulted by locals. The dog2 (talk) 21:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

He was told this directly at 5:00, what are you talking about? Further, he did not dare to publicly use this word. 217.19.215.63 16:34, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

• The person above is wrong. I work as a journalist for a local media outlet and have access to Pridnestrovian police reports. So, in the center of Tiraspol near the central square there is a "flea market" where the local population, mainly pensioners, sells all kinds of household items, souvenirs and the like. About a year ago, a tourist came there and asked for "symbols of transnistria" or "flag of transnistria", I don't remember exactly. As a result, one salesman smashed his face. Then the police decided to quietly hush everything up and simply sent this narrow-minded tourist out of the country in order not to make the case public. This is just one of the cases that recently caught my eye. I really do not recommend provoking the local population, especially the elderly who remember the Romanian occupation. 217.19.215.63 16:29, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Do you think this was one isolated incident? It's OK with me if you think that it's in the interests of travelers to warn them that using the name Transnistria while in the country could possibly provoke a violent reaction, but I wouldn't go overboard based on a single incident. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:10, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

No, this is not an isolated incident, but it is that I can personally vouch for this case, since I am directly acquainted with it. Besides I can say about the attitude of people to such a careless attitude towards their feelings and the history of their country, which is extremely negative, therefore I am sure that the case is not single case of provoked abuse. But the local government prefers not to advertise this cases for not create a negative image of the country for tourists. 217.19.215.63 18:15, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

More importantly, is this the same person again that posted earlier in the year and was blocked for incivility? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:28, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Are you surprised that Pridnestrovian monopolist Internet provider[2] has the same IP range for all ADSL connections for one city or region? By the way, just about the disagreement with him I wrote above, because he did not report that a more serious conflict could arise. 217.19.215.63 18:15, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

• I reckon the IP range is identical. If I was to bet money, it'd be on a Yes option. Ibaman (talk) 17:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • The linked video tells us that Pridnestrovia is the preferred term. It does not tell us that it could "provoke a violent reaction", so we have no evidence of that. I am opposed to adding such a warning on the basis of an unsupported claim by an abusive jerk. I think it more likely reflects his own violent feelings on the issue than any actual threats. I took tours with two diffent guides, and I do not recall either of them mentioning any problem with using "Transnistria ", and I am sure than neither of them corrected my use of Transnistria — I would remember that and use the "correct" term if I were told to do so. To be fair, both of them work for Transnistria Tour, the largest tour operator to the country. Ground Zero (talk) 18:08, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
    • I just told what I know and see, because I live here and work with public opinion professionally (unlike a foreign tourist that stayed here for several hours). By the way, this is the first time I've heard about the mentioned "largest tour operator", here are the sites of local travel operators: niagara-pmr.com, intour-travels.ru, bon-voyage-pmr.com, vladora-tour.com, elittur-travel.com, poehalisnamipmr.com that actually work in Pridnestrovie. 217.19.215.63 18:25, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
      • The tour companies you listed do not have English-language webpage, so they can't tell us anything about what the country is called in English. If you look at TripAdvisor's "Best Tiraspol Tours", you will see that they refer to "Transnistria", including those by a company called "GoTransnistria"], and those leaving from Ukraine. Ground Zero (talk) 19:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
        • You can see this on the official websites of Pridnestrovian state authorities or news agencies, which are translated into English. 217.19.215.63 23:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
          • The "official name argument" has already been addressed above. Ground Zero (talk) 00:49, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Since you are asking what can be useful for tourists to know, I consider it necessary to mention one more point. You probably know that WWII Victory Day, May 9, is widely celebrated in Pridnestrovie; this holiday is even higher in importance than Republic (Independence) Day. This is not an element of state propaganda: in every Pridnestrovian family without exception there was or is a person who fought or died in this war, or worked in the rear, or suffered in the occupation or concentration camps.

So, in the Criminal Code of the PMR there is article No. 242-1 "Insulting the memory of the Great Patriotic War":

Public actions or statements expressing clear disrespect for society and aimed at distorting reliably proven information about the Great Patriotic War, or belittling the merits of the participants in the Great Patriotic War, as well as persons who died in the fight against fascism - shall be punished with a fine in the amount of 500 (five hundred) to 1000 (one thousand) calculated levels of the minimum wage, or correctional labor for a term of up to 2 (two) years, or imprisonment for a term of up to 5 (five) years.

The use of the terminology of Nazi war criminals in relation to the modern Pridnestrovie directly falls under this article. I suppose a tourist would not like to come here for a few hours, but stay for 5 years, and in a prison. 217.19.215.63 11:53, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Is this law ever applied to tourists? If it were, you'd think that tour companies like Tour Transnistria and GoTransnistria would warn their customers in order to avoid problems. If the law isn't applied to tourists, then we don't need a warning here. The existing wording is sufficient Ground Zero (talk) 12:45, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

The law applies to everyone (articles No. 4 and 10). Think for yourself: if you come as a tourist to a foreign country and you kill a person there, then do you really think that you will not end up in jail just because you are a tourist and do not know local laws? Apparently, the PMR Government decided to deal with this issue more thoroughly than before, if even the President of the PMR himself made a speech on this matter. I am not aware of the companies mentioned, because I have never dealt with them: how they earn and how responsibly they treat their clients is exclusively their business. I do not work in the tourism sector, but for professional needs as a media representative I have close contacts with law enforcement agencies, courts and parliament members, so I know what I am writing about. 217.19.215.63 13:29, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

People expect governments to prosecute tourusts for murder. Prosecuting tourists for using the common English name of a country instead of the government's preferred name would be a hostile way of treating visitors, lead to international ridicule, and destroy what tourism there is in the country. So I don't think that the PMR government is going to prosecute tourists under the stupid law. If you cant provide evidence that it is a credible threat, we don't need a warning. Ground Zero (talk) 14:08, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

I doubt that the claims about "common English name" and "stupid law" will be taken in court as arguments in favor of the accused. Especially if this case is not dealt with by the police, but by the Ministry of State Security. I warned that I know; if there is other information, I will provide it if it will be possible.

Note: the share of tourism in the GDP of Pridnestrovie is ~0.03%. This includes domestic tourism and Russian-speaking visitors. So think, what is more profitable for the Pridnestrovian authorities: to anger their own population or to rein in fools who have not even familiarized themselves with the name of the country to which they have arrived. 217.19.215.63 14:46, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

I'm here to build a travel guide; you're here to push your agenda on the name of this country. The official name is included here, along with advice on not giving offence. That's enough. I'm going back to building a travel guide. Please take your campaign elsewhere. Ground Zero (talk) 15:20, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Did you expect me to register and participate in writing an article titled Transnistria? No thanks. I have already shared with you the first-hand information that I saw fit; how to use it, decide for yourself. 217.19.215.63 17:25, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

• Yeah, speaking for myself as a traveller, my touristic interest about Tiraspol is getting smaller and smaller, every time this purely linguistic bull is ressurected in this article. Ibaman (talk) 16:39, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

  I laugh, no one is waiting for you there. 200.73.131.84 18:36, 15 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

Ah yes, discouraging tourism! Since you're not here to serve travelers, best to go elsewhere, and have a good day. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:42, 15 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

During my brief visit to PMR, I found people to be pleasant and welcoming. I don't think that this unhappy, cranky dude is representative of the people of the country. Ground Zero (talk) 19:46, 15 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

I can't exactly be quite sure exactly what name you should objectively use to locals. I'm getting conflicting reports from all types of people. I can recall a video made by a Romanian travelling couple [3] on Youtube (you know, the stereotyical kind) where they used "Transnistria" in front of a lady selling meat in the market in Tiraspol (most prominently at 26:30). I don't believe that you shouldn't use Pridnestrovie in the country itself. In fact, you really should, because it's respectful to the people there, but I don't quite believe you will be beaten up when you made a mistake as an obvious tourist. TheElectrifiedFreak (talk) 19:26, 20 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

For anyone who still has concerns about the name of the country commonly used in English, I will note that the foreign affairs ministries of the five English-speaking countries cited in the Warning Box — UK, USA, Canada, Australia, and Ireland — all call the country "Transnistria". Ground Zero (talk) 20:01, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

It is called Transnistria by the Moldovan government, too. It is internationlly recognized as being part of Moldova. Ground Zero (talk) 16:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Currently, Transnistria is categorized as part of the Balkans. I would argue that it should be categorized with the new region Eastern Europe. Transnistria i culturally East Slavic and post-Soviet, more than Moldovan or Romanian. We already make a stretch of the word Balkans by including Moldova. /Yvwv (talk) 21:07, 4 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

You started this discussion at Talk:Eastern_Europe#Transnistria in July. I think it is best to continue the discussion there so that I don't have you repeat what I wrote there. Ground Zero (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hey there, you might've seen me edit this page a lot. No reason other than being very bored, but I've come across a difficulty, and that is: is the name of the city on the right bank of the Dniester weirdly belonging to Transnistria (formerly called Tighina) called Bender or Bendery? I know in Russian latinization the letter ы in English is y, but on the other hand most English and non-Russian or Ukrainian foreign sources also call it some variation of Bender without a drop-off like sound ы makes. A lot of instances of Bender and Bendery are found on the page, so I just want to make this clear for further simplification. Thanks. TheElectrifiedFreak (talk) 19:32, 20 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Our friends at Wikipedia have concluded here, that "Bender" is the common name in English, and that "Bendery" would be the Russian version. Wikivoyage uses English names over others, so we should stick with Bender, unless the common English usage has changed since Wikipedia considered it last. Ground Zero (talk) 21:46, 20 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

? 2A03:F680:FE04:1696:E5C8:5B76:C313:AD2E 14:51, 2 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

• as you would note in Talk:Transnistria#Pridnestrovie, there is consensus about this issue, if you care about this subject, you are welcome to join the discussion there, in its appropriate subtopic. Ibaman (talk) 15:00, 2 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

I have been to Transnistria. While it is a strange place, I strongly doubt that the regime would throw tourists in jail for using the wrong name. A simple notification of the law is sufficient. We don't need a caution box. I also think this is the regime's agenda, and most people in the territory will not interpret a foreigners ignorance as "a wish for genocide". I don't think they are nuts.

This article already has a warning box for the danger of war, and a disclaimer box about not endorsing either side in the conflict. We shouldn't add to the clutter by putting in a caution box when it could be handled in the Respect section. Ground Zero (talk) 12:04, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Actually, if using the far more common English-language name could get you thrown in prison for two weeks, that does seem like something that really needs to be called out with a warning. It's not to the level of violence in Haiti or Yemen or something, but that's a very severe punishment for a completely innocuous action. That said, the current text seems a little excessive in its wording.

—Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:44, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Would tourists really be thrown in jail? Or would they be warned? Throwing tourists in jail for a minor transgression would kill the tourist industry of a territory that has limited ability to earn from foreign trade. If there has been even one instance of a tourist being jailed, I would agree to the caution box, but Google can find no evidence that this has ever . Ground Zero (talk) 12:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I tried looking for similar information but also failed. We shouldn't put inconspicuously false information like what the IP did unless we're crystal clear it's true. I agree with GZ's reverts. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 12:51, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

For Pridnestrovians, this does not look like a harmless offense at all. For them, the use of the word Transnistria is an expression of aggression and hatred, regardless of where a person found this term and whether he knows what it means. The unanimous vote of the Parliament for this law directly confirms that the problem has gone too far and that it must be solved with tough measures. 80.94.250.208 13:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

It's more complicated than that. This is not an agenda, but the result of constant conflicts and provocations arising from the use of this term by foreigners. As they say, it's boiling over. This is not just a statement by an official, like the one made by the President of the PMR in 2019; this is a law, the implementation of which is obligatory for law enforcement agencies. This law does not say that there are categories of persons (for example, foreigners) to whom this rule does not apply. The police and the state security service are obliged to take action against anyone who uses an offensive name in public (for example, in a conversation on the street). The problem has really become too urgent and therefore demanded that Parliament take action. People are simply tired of tolerating insults, and the constant conflicts arising on this basis are of no use to anyone. I have no doubt that the first precedents of a inprisonment will sober up the lovers of Transnistria and similar provocations, but why put travelers at risk by removing this warning?

This article by its title brings risk to travelers. If it does not also warn that this title is unacceptable, then its goal is downright provocative: to create problems for travelers, to involve them in conflict with local authorities and people. 80.94.250.208 13:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I did not remove the warning. I moved it to "Respect". Has any tourist ever been jailed or fined? Ever? Ground Zero (talk)

The law has just been passed. Do you want to test one of the basic principles of justice, that everyone is equal before the law, on any of the travelers? 80.94.250.208 13:13, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

It is also necessary to explain for travelers to why Transnistria is offensive and why it is prohibited by law (otherwise they, as we see from this discussion, do not take it seriously). This notice was originally added to the article not by me, but the remark that Transnistria is a synonym for a wish for genocide for Pridnestrovians seems exhaustive. 80.94.250.208 13:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, you've got this all wrong. The website of the Supreme Council of the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic says:

Tourists arriving in our republic will be informed about the new legislation.

A fine of 10 to 20 minimum wages (from 184 to 368 rubles) or administrative arrest for up to 15 days – for citizens. For officials – from 10 to 40 minimum wages (from 184 to 736 rubles), for legal entities – from 100 to 500 minimum wages (from 1840 to 9200 rubles).

These penalties apply to citizens, not tourists. And it is a fine of €10-20 or jail, not and, as you claimed. The new law isn't as crazy as you made it sound. Let's remove the false claims from this article. Ground Zero (talk) 13:26, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

If a crime is committed on the territory of Pridnestrovie, then the citizenship of the criminal is of no importance. It doesn't matter whether you are a tourist or a citizen of Pridnestrovie. 80.94.250.208 13:38, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Can you provide evidence for your claim that the website of the Supreme Council of the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic is wrong? Ground Zero (talk) 13:45, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

What is wrong with this website? Everything seems to be written correctly; I don't know where you found words there that contradict the basic principles of justice, for example: Criminal Code of the PMR, Art. 10.1: "A person who has committed a crime on the territory of the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic is subject to criminal liability under this Code." 80.94.250.208 13:50, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Don't use this site to grind your axe. It looks like you're engaging in hyperbole and wasting everyone's time. Again. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:54, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I copied the sixth and eighth paragraphs from the page that I linked above from the Supreme Council website. It is clear that the "fine or administrative arrest" applies to citizens, and that "tourists... will be informed about the new legislation". Ground Zero (talk) 13:54, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Code of Administrative Offenses: Art. 1.9-1. "Citizens of the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic, foreign citizens and stateless persons bear administrative responsibility in the manner and on the grounds established by this Code." (the fundamental principles are the same for both Codes of Offenses). Or do you really think that you can go to another country, kill or rape someone and avoid responsibility on the grounds that you are a foreigner? And here are the amendments to the laws that were adopted by Parliament (the text of the laws themselves is also publicly available). I don't know if you can translate this, but you can take my word for it that there is nothing there about exceptions for anyone. 80.94.250.208 14:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I revised the text to align with the description of the law from the Supreme Council's website. I have also changed many instances of the use of Transnistria in the article to reflect either both names, or in the case of official uses, only Pridnestrovie. I think this strikes a better balance between the common and official names. Ground Zero (talk) 14:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yes, it looks better. But there is a lack of explanation of the reasons why Transnistria is banned (that it is an insult and can lead to conflicts with the locals). 80.94.250.208 14:25, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

The law is directed at getting the citizens of the territory to stop using the name you claim insults them. Let's leave the politics to Wikipedia. And not add falsehoods as you've done. Ground Zero (talk) 14:27, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

These are your conjectures. What exactly is falsehoods?

• Transnistria is prohibited? Yes.
• Is this an insult to the locals, leading to misunderstanding and conflict? Yes.
• Will the offender face sanctions in the form of a fine and arrest? Yes.
• Does this apply to all offenders without exception, including travelers? Yes.
• Can a repeat offender be reclassified as a criminal offense with a long-term sentence? Yes.

The President clearly explained why these amendments should be adopted. This is essential information for travelers. 80.94.250.160 14:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

You have provided no evidence that penalties are applied to non-citizens. Based on what is written on the Supreme Council website, I believe that it is false to claim that they are. Is there any evidence that locals will be insulted? The only evidence seems to be what the president and his gang claim. Do locals care? If so, why does the regime have to penalise citizens who d not comply? Ground Zero (talk) 14:49, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

The Administrative and Criminal Codes of the PMR is not evidence?

It looks like a very biased and politicized statement. The President was elected by a popular democratic vote, just like all members of Parliament. They fully express the will of the Pridnestrovian people and have the right to speak on their behalf in order to protect their interests. Anticipating your objections like "PMR is not a state", "there is no democracy in PMR", "PMR is a bandit regime", etc., which should not be taken seriously, I will still note that for travelers this does not matter; they should show respect for the country they are traveling to, including its laws and authorities. Or how do you imagine "evidence of the offensiveness of Transnistria"? 80.94.250.160 15:05, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

You'll need consensus to make any further changes to this article. Let's see what other editors have to say. elections in PMR were rated as "not free" by Freedom House. I don't think you are credible. Ground Zero (talk) 15:16, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Considering that this organization uses a term that is obviously offensive to Pridnestrovians, there is no point in talking about any objectivity. 80.94.250.160 15:26, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

You are free to leave the discussion. Have a nice day. Ground Zero (talk) 15:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Swept in from the pub

We have a repeat visitor to this page who, I believe, is pushing an agenda, using hyperbolic language. The issue has been discussed on the talk page, but they are trying to impose their agenda on the article. I do not wish to edit war with them, so I would like the views of others. Please see this edit. Ground Zero (talk) 11:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I have started (yet another) discussion on the article' talk page here. Ground Zero (talk) 12:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)Reply