User talk:Apisite Voyage Tips and guide

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To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here.

It's great to see you have migrated over here, CurvyEthyl, and hopefully we can make this the best and most popular travel guide on the web. Happy editing! JamesA ^>talk 01:14, 18 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

TY. I'm both CurvyEthyl and Lo Ximiendo. Besides, I think the migration process seems to speak in a different language. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 01:20, 18 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

It's good to have you here. All the best, Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:04, 18 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hello, CurvyEthyl! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Project:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub.

Thanks for the fixes! -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 02:54, 1 August 2010 (EDT)

Who makes all the maps here? I'm curious to know about that because they look pretty.

(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 18:53, 8 September 2010 (EDT)CurvyEthyl(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 18:53, 8 September 2010 (EDT)

Have a look at Project:How to draw a map, which details how it can be done. Contributors to the Project:Mapmaking Expedition are some of the most prominent contributors. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 19:03, 8 September 2010 (EDT)

I don't know what watchlists are and what they do. I think that looking for updates on any country's aspects on any news sites can have benefits for Wikivoyage.

p.s. What's an edit summary? I get a message that says that I don't have an edit summary when I press the save page button.

(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 20:02, 17 September 2010 (EDT)CurvyEthyl

Hello. Thank you for your additions about the reopening of Angola's railways. A watchlist is basically a summary of recent edits made to pages which have been added to your watchlist. When you edit, there is a "watch this page" box which I believe is selected by default (or can be through your user settings). At the top right of the screen, look for the "my watchlist" in blue...click this to view your watchlist. For me, taking a look at this watchlist is just a helpful way to see what's going on, since a lot of articles I've worked on and community pages are on it. An edit summary is the text box two lines above the "save page" button when editing and you should put a few words about what you just edited (eg. "fixed spelling", "added hotel link", "organized sites", "added ZZZ Tower to sights"). That too, I think is a default setting that you get a message when you don't put anything in the box. I'm not around much anymore, but feel free to ask any questions on my talk page (it might be a few days before I respond, though). (WT-en) AHeneen 19:19, 21 September 2010 (EDT)

No problem. If you want to try the CFL for the betterment of the train section of the Angola travel guide, you could study every aspect of the train route for its service, appearance, food, etc. (WT-en) CurvyEthyl 21:22, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

Thanks for all of your recent contributions. One request - when creating a new article, can you populate the "isPartOf" tag for the new article? Doing so generates the breadcrumb navigation at the top of the page. To do so, simply add text like the following at the bottom of the article:

{{isPartOf|Parent Region}}

...where "Parent Region" is the parent region of the new article. For example, my current home town is on the West Side of LA, so the isPartOf tag looks like:

{{isPartOf|West Side (Los Angeles County)}}

Thanks! -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 20:58, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

I gave the breadcrumb nagigation feature a try on the Uige travel guide outline and it works! I never bothered to do something like that. --(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 21:50, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

Hi, Esther. While I really appreciate all your clean-up work, especially fixing grammatical errors, could you please put hold to creating outline articles for a while? There is absolutely nothing wrong with creating outlines unless done in excess, in fact it can be helpful to users who are not very comfortable with creating articles from scratch, but it can put some readers off Wikivoyage. When they see a blue link instead of a red one, they may think "wow, here is an article at last on the destination I've been dreaming about for so long", and then when they see all the article provides is "X is a town in Y", without seeing our better articles, they may think "is this all Wikivoyage has to offer?" and abandon Wikivoyage completely.

While I am grateful for the spelling/grammatical/punctuational clean-ups you've made at Eastern Thrace article last night, more specifically, I request you to put an end to create outline articles for obscure Thracian towns. I'm not really satisfied with the idea of filling articles with sentences that essentially says "there is nothing to see here, move on" and if I could put up reasonably good articles about those towns, I would create the outlines myself. Take Cerkezkoy, for example. It's not somewhere the average traveller yearns for going to. Sure, we can create an article for business travellers or for people who somehow end up being there, but I just don't know enough about the place to satisfy their needs. So, I think your effort here is better spent on fixing grammatical mistakes and the like, and creating good articles for your home county and its towns—I see you wish its article to earn guide status, just like I wish for my home region. You sure have a favourite restaurant in Monroe (Michigan) to note in the article, don't you? What are the typical ways to reach there? Are there any rough areas in the town, or dangerous situations caused by wild animals in the surrounding area? I'd be glad to help you out with creating good articles for your home region in any way I can (just don't expect me to draw maps, though, I've tried making a few in the past and I failed).

Please don't be disheartened by this comment, I'm just trying to direct your efforts to where they will be most beneficial. In the end, this is a wiki, and you are absolutely free to do whatever you like, including ignoring my request and creating outlines on obscure Thracian towns. :-) – (WT-en) Vidimian 08:36, 29 September 2010 (EDT)

I don't think that I have any favorites, but I have known a little bit about the Lake Erie Transit public transport system. If anybody has heard of it in Toledo, Ohio, I think that they'll feel surprised if they learn that it serves Monroe County. I also have a 2009-2010 Monroe County Yellowbook in my house, so are there any suggestions on what to look for in it? – (WT-en) CurvyEthyl 19:21, 29 September 2010 (EDT)

I don't know, if it contains lists for restaurants and hotels, that would be useful. It's best not to copy & paste yellowbook style lists, though (that's something Wikivoyage tries to avoid). Check the hotels, restaurants, and bars listed at the yellowbook up on Google, and then try to come up with listings, such as this one (which I've found on a search at Google):

• <sleep name="Hotel Sterling" alt="" address="109 W. Front St." directions="" phone="+1 734-242-6212" email="[email protected]" fax="" url="http://www.thehotelsterling.com/" checkin="" checkout="" price="From $112">Rooms with en-suite bathrooms.</sleep>

More information you can put, better and more useful the guide would be but something is better than nothing, so only the name of the hotel and phone number would do. And restaurants doesn't have to be your favourite, just list ones you think is good. And if you don't really have any preference, just list them away, preferably with contact and price info and what kind of cuisine they offer. And you can go ahead and write in the article that Monroe is served by Lake Eire Transit with connections from Toledo. I'll keep an eye on the progress of these articles, and if you need any help, please don't hesitate to ask at the article's talk page, or at my talk page. – (WT-en) Vidimian 20:29, 29 September 2010 (EDT)

And I see you've started with area codes and a little bit of history about Milan (Michigan)—that's good! – (WT-en) Vidimian 20:32, 29 September 2010 (EDT)

The website of Monroe County Tourism Bureau [1] may also be helpful. Just do not copy & paste any text from there — that constitutes a copyright violation — just use it for inspiration and re-write into your own words. – (WT-en) Vidimian 20:47, 29 September 2010 (EDT)

Are you telling me that you're unfamiliar with the contents of a typical yellowbook? 0_0 My yellowbook includes restaurants, auto renting, bakeries, bars, grills, pubs, boat renting & leasing, and campgrounds & recreational vehicle parks, to name a few.

p.s. A yellowbook, on basic grounds, has addresses and telephone numbers. – (WT-en) CurvyEthyl 21:04, 29 September 2010 (EDT)

Oh, that's great. That would be very useful. I've got a "sense" of yellowpages, but the last time I've grabbed one was in early 90's I think, so I can't really remember what were listed at that. Good work on "understand" section of Luna Pier—those sections are for telling a little bit of history of the place and why travellers would like to visit, which you exactly did! One reminder, though: per Project:Region article template#Cities, there shouldn't be a seperate section for villages, so I'm moving them up to "cities" list at Monroe County (Michigan). I'm also adding the official website of Monroe County Tourism Bureau to the article, which is permissible per Project:External links. – (WT-en) Vidimian 05:18, 30 September 2010 (EDT)

The Turkish part of the song says:

Haydi gidelim Baklahorani'ye, 
Dans edip eğlenelim sabaha kadar.
(Two more lines in Greek here)
Tatavla coşuyor gelen maskaralarla,
Tulumbacılar da dizilmiş sıraya.

A rough translation would be:

"Let's go to Baklahorani,
Let's dance and have fun till the morning.
...
Tatavla effervesces with the newly arrived masqueraders,
Tulumba-sellers are parading as well."

• Tatavla is the Greek (and the former Turkish) name of Kurtuluş, once the main middle class Greek neighbourhood of Istanbul.
• Tulumba is a kind of dessert.

I can't write down the lyrics of the Greek part as I don't understand the language—although I can immediately recognize it—but I guess it should be more or less the same with the Turkish part.

If you are interested in the band, you might want to check out their website [2]. – (WT-en) Vidimian 21:42, 21 January 2012 (EST)

Man, I wish I could wear a mask and try some tulumbas. I signed the anti-censorship petition that's linked to your userpage and now I'm asking one of the Wiktionarians (people of the Wiktionary; "Saltmarsh" is the username, and I'm "Lo Ximiendo" there) to transcribe and translate the Greek lyrics. --(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 01:55, 22 January 2012 (EST)

Hey, thanks for signing the petition—TİB (the communication authority that would institute the regulation) seems to back off for a while now, but I'm sure they will try again. (And then, there is the SOPA issue...)

And it seems your Greek lyrics arrived, below. – (WT-en) Vidimian 06:54, 22 January 2012 (EST)

Flyax told me that he thought the Greek lines in the Turkish part are in Turkish, because he thought the heard the word Turkish word "kemanlar" (violins) and that laterna could be a Turkish word as well. Could you clarify these by listening to the Turkish lyrics again? (You can edit what you gave me. Besides, the person who sung the Turkish part could also be singing the Greek with an accent, could he?) --(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 15:57, 24 January 2012 (EST)

Έλα να με βρεις στο Μπακλαχοράνι
να γλεντήσουμε μαζί μέχρι το πρωί
Αραράτ, Ολύμπια, Δέσποινα και Μπόγο1
καραφάκια με ρακί, λατέρνες2 και βιολιά
όλοι οι μασκαράδες θα είναι απαρτία
κι οι τουλουμπατζήδες θα στέκουν στη σειρά.

Έλα να με βρεις στο Μπακλαχοράνι
να τα σπάσουμε μαζί μέχρι το πρωί
κι αν σ' αναγνωρίσω, δωσ' μου ένα φιλάκι
κι από το φιλάκι ποιος ξέρει τι θα βγει
τέτοιες μέρες που 'χουμε πρέπει να θυμάσαι
πως μικρή και όμορφη είναι η ζωή

3Θα μασκαρευτείς στο Μπακλαχοράνι
θα ξεχάσεις βάσανα, ντέρτια και καημούς
το χασάπικο δεν ξέρει τι 'ναι αδικία
και δεν ξεχωρίζει πλούσιους και φτωχούς

Translation

Come and meet me in Baklahorani,
We'll be having fun till the morning
Ararat, Olympia, Despina and Bogho1
Little carafes with raki, laternas2 and violins

All masqueraders will be there
And tulumba-sellers will be standing in a line.

Come and meet me in Baklahorani,
We'll be having a great fun till the morning
And if I recognise you, give me a little kiss
Who knows what may be after that
These days you should have in mind
That life is short and beautiful.

1. names of local taverns
2. λατέρνα (laterna) is a kind of a Barrel piano. See photos here.
3. These verses are included in other versions of the song.

--(WT-en) Flyax 06:25, 22 January 2012 (EST)

Hi Lo Ximiendo/CurvyEthyl! It's great to see you back joining us here, on our new site. Please keep up your good work, on copyediting and everything else... Vidimian (talk) 16:50, 17 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I reverted your addition of this phrase to thirteen U.S. state articles, for multiple reasons. It is considered bad practice to add the same thing to multiple articles (spamming), unless there is a really compelling reason to do so. Alerting travelers to laws regarding sales of raw milk does not seem that compelling, or even travel relevant. If I'm mistaken, and this is a highly relevant issue for travel, I think it would be better covered in a Raw foods travel topic. You may want to solicit opinion before, or shortly after starting such an article, though, because it would need to be very focused on the needs of travelers—not a discussion of raw foods in general. --Peter ^Talk 18:00, 17 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

I don't think the discussions and decisions on raw food for the traveller in mind should have to be rigged in favor of food processors (such as those of, among other things, pasteurization, irradiation, genetic modification/engineering, etc.). --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 18:24, 17 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

You're a docent, right? Which U.S. state do you live in, if you're a U.S. citizen? You could look up where edible plants are in /near/around your place of residence as an example of where to find raw plants to eat. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 18:32, 17 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

If you want an example of what to forage for, wild grapes grow in my area, which consists of the rightly named River Raisin (raisin being French for grape, iirc). --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 19:07, 17 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

Rigging things in favor of anyone isn't really the concern—it's that your edits seemed more aimed at raising awareness of a political/economic/health issue than at informing readers about travel, and that the same content was spammed across 13 articles. What do you think about the travel topic idea I suggested? --Peter ^Talk 19:16, 17 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

Also, I don't live in a state ;) --Peter ^Talk 19:30, 17 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

If you wish to know why foraging for raw plants and eating raw food in general is a good idea, this Shareable guide can be a good idea. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 22:42, 17 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

It is a really bad idea and very dangerous to recommend foraging for people who are not already familiar with a local area (i.e. travelers). Someone could become very sick based on this advice. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:37, 29 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Andrewssi, while I agree as per Prof. Antoine Béchamp, Ph.D.'s cellular theory, why never a local canoe livery to ease the traveller into even meta-physical exploration, anyway? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 19:20, 5 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi. I didn't see any question in your ideas about phrasebooks, and Tourist Office is a place to ask travel-related questions, so I moved your posts to Wikivoyage talk:Phrasebook Expedition, not knowing where else to put it. Make sure to check there for any replies.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:13, 28 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Affirmative, Ikan-chan. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 11:11, 28 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

I just came across this grist-mill article. (Better to aim for any light-source, though.) --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 07:12, 14 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Here's one Ohioan Kickstarter project that's in need of US funding (exactly $100,000 USD, if one needs to know or understand how much, of course). --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 10:29, 14 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

I do not understand why you are posting things like the previous two sections of this page or large parts of the content of your user page. Information of direct relevance to travellers is fine, of course, and a moderate amount of background material on destinations or, on the user page, on you is OK too.

I see an awful lot of stuff that strikes me as "none of the above". For example, I see absolutely nothing worth having in the "Introduction" or "Wishes" of you user page, and most of the rest seems questionable. Can you please take a second look and remove some rubbish and/or reply with an explanation? Pashley (talk) 00:07, 22 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

In case you haven't even noticed either the Wikipedia or the Wiktionary versions of my userpage, I basically go out of my way to edit articles and entries. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 00:10, 22 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

We've let the stuff on your user page antagonistically defending your linking to a white supremacist site at Talk:Marseille slide for years because we saw no compelling reason not to let a sleeping dog lie, but since you're now suddenly adding to it, I will warn you that this kind of stuff is not OK on this site. You don't have to agree not to be a racist and Islamophobe, but you do need to stop expressing such opinions here, and you need to start by deleting the antagonistic remarks on your user page now. Otherwise, we'll have to delete it for you and block your posting privileges, which is probably the response you are trying to get for some reason. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:32, 15 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: Done? --Apisite (talk) 19:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Yes, we're good. I appreciate it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:02, 15 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: Understand, that I'm not afraid of being persecuted for my ethnoreligious beliefs and heritage, because the people behind "anti-racism™" have likely also a plan to murder or enslave you, your loved ones and millions of other people. At least Falun Dafa and its teachings of Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance can offer you and others a way out though. --Apisite (talk) 01:25, 16 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

I figured that you would argue that racists are a group that is being persecuted. I won't argue that point with you and will just say that your views are not an issue as long as you don't continue posting about them here or letting them affect the content of the edits you make. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:30, 16 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

I also want to point out that you are not allowed to promote your religion here. You may state your religion as part of your profile on your user page, but using Wikivoyage to proselytise is not allowed. The dog2 (talk) 19:02, 16 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

@The dog2: I would like to see that policy in writing. --Apisite (talk) 03:08, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Wikivoyage:Don't tout. Proselytising also counts as touting. And if you want to argue that this is not the case, I'm pretty sure other administrators and seasoned editors can back me up on this. @Ikan Kekek, AndreCarrotflower, Ibaman: just in case. The dog2 (talk) 03:21, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Absolutely. I'd also add that avoiding a ban begins but does not end with deleting the material on your user page that Ikan Kekek and The dog2 called out. Disingenuous comments about "being persecuted for [one's] ethnoreligious beliefs and heritage" and disingenuous requests to "see that policy in writing" are among the reasons why you continue to be in danger of such a ban. You'd be well advised to adopt a more collegial attitude. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:38, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

I definitely agree with The dog2. A travel guide isn't the place to try to convince people to convert to your religion. Understand, no-one is saying you don't have the right to advocate white supremacy or promote a religion. You do have those rights, at least in the United States (some nations do indeed punish certain types of speech, as we all know). But you don't have the right to do it on this site, just as you don't have the right to argue here that this travel guide shouldn't recognize the existence of a pretty stable nation that exists de facto because you oppose its existence or that it should avoid mentioning air travel because air travel undeniably harms the environment. There are certain basic parameters of a non-sectarian travel guide that exclude things for reasons of topicality or in an effort to serve travelers, regardless of nationality, color or creed. Whether we achieve these goals or fall short of them is a function of our membership and human strengths and weaknesses, but the fundamental principles this guide is based on are the traveller comes first and be fair. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:43, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

@AndreCarrotflower, Ikan Kekek, The dog2: How long will the ban be? --Apisite (talk) 03:48, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

You have not been banned. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:55, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

please, don't start another edit war. Ibaman (talk) 10:59, 9 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

These are quite clearly touting, in my view. I will revert all of them unless someone else disagrees. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: What about the idea of a wiki-database, that is like Wikivoyage, but for and about new religious movements primarily? --Apisite (talk) 22:29, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

To @AlasdairW:: What do you think of the idea? --Apisite (talk) 22:46, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

You can create your own site, if you pay for somewhere to host it. The Mediawiki software is freely available (GPL) and there are hosting services which may offer something that is ready to configure. I have come across several existing religious directories, but those I have seen offer very limited coverage. I have no interest in your site, and you won't be able to link to it from here. AlasdairW (talk) 23:12, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Feel free to start your own site. I doubt it would be part of the Wikimedia Foundation family of sites, though you could of course use wiki-language. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

It's clearly out of scope even for a site like Wikidata. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 03:48, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek, AlasdairW, SHB2000: Are you three saying, that no references to the True Buddha School and other new religious movements are to be allowed at Wikivoyage, either under any circumstances or except in extraordinary circumstances? --Apisite (talk) 20:36, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

No, but what you are doing is a misuse of talk pages. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:24, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

And I addressed this in the Travellers' pub. Stop trying to use a travel guide to promote your religion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:28, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

See also Talk:Buddhism#True_Buddha_School_Temples. Pashley (talk) 04:11, 4 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek, AlasdairW, SHB2000, Pashley: Possible good news for at least you four: It seems even the True Buddha School itself disapproved of what I did. --Apisite (talk) 21:32, 6 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Wow, that was unexpected. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 22:04, 6 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

And yet you've continued to list your sect's temples (complete with links to Wikipedia that violate Wikivoyage:Links to Wikipedia, but that's a side point). Therefore, you've been blocked for an initial period of 3 days. You might also be a bit careful about what you write on your user page, which is not really a forum for generalized complaints about Wikivoyage policies and guidelines. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: Belated correction: I'm not a member of the True Buddha School, and as an ex-Mormon, I'm not even sure if I were supernormally meant to practice in either the True Buddha School or anything else. --Apisite (talk) 22:05, 13 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Be that as it may, you've given no indication how these temples are of particular interest to travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:22, 13 May 2024 (UTC)Reply