User talk:Mathew105601 Voyage Tips and guide

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To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page.

If you are a Wikipedian then you may notice some differences in policies and the style of our articles. These include:

• NPOV → be fair (not quite the same thing!)
• be bold → plunge forward
• Village pump → travellers' pub
• External links → We do not use a separate external links section, but incorporate primary links only into the text itself.
• sandbox → graffiti wall
• stub notes → Article status notes

It may also be very useful for you to check out Wikivoyage:Welcome, Wikipedians. If you need help, take a look at Wikivoyage:Help, or else post a message in the travellers' pub or on my talk page. Thanks for contributing! --Saqib (talk) 15:46, 1 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi there. Thanks for your contributions, but please don't start creating district articles for Jacksonville until there is some consensus to do so at Talk:Jacksonville. Texugo (talk) 18:21, 12 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

Is there some reason you made Duval County (Florida) it's own article instead of a redirect to Jacksonville. The county and city are almost coterminous; I would think it would be better to cover them in one article.—The preceding comment was added by Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk • contribs)

I didn't create the original Duval page, I reverted back into existence. The city and county are consolidated in Jacksonville, but destinations along the beach are outside the consolidated area. I would agree that most travelers to Jacksonville would not think twice about Jacksonville Beach being in a different administrative situation. I'd advocate to consolidate the guides, but I'm also an advocate for splintering the Jacksonville page into districts, which could potentially put some beach communities under two designations, one for the county and one as a district of the city. There are a lot of ways to look at it. Regardless the page needs some work Mathew105601 (talk) 16:25, 23 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

My understanding of what happened, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the term "Jacksonville" was redefined to be almost synonymous with "Duval County", and what was previously called "Jacksonville" is now called "Old City". Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 19:29, 23 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

There are four municipalities outside of the City of Jacksonville, but inside Duval, with varying degrees of autonomy. Some areas share police service with the city, some have there own departments. These places have separate councils and mayors, but they do have the ability to vote for the Mayor of Jacksonville. If you are up on your world governments, think of the UK and the devolved governments of Scotland, Wells, and Northern Ireland. "Old City" is less vernacular, but notates an area with well defined smaller neighborhoods. Outside of this area post people associate with the larger "sides" of town.Mathew105601 (talk) 22:33, 23 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes, but the key word was "almost" (those incorporated cities/towns only form a very small part of the county). I just want to make sure I've got my basic facts right before we even bother trying to discuss this, or trying to discuss details; Is my understating of what happened to the term "Jacksonville" in 1968 correct, and does the term "Old City" refer to the place that pre-1968 was called "Jacksonville"? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 22:53, 23 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

You are correct. Most of the county is considered Jacksonville. The volume of land that these other places make up is relatively small, though I would argue they have population centers and other legal jurisdictions. You are also correct about "Old City" referring to pre-1968 Jacksonville. It is not a word in common use, but most Jacksonvillians would know what you were referring to if asked to identify "Old City" or "Old City of Jacksonville". Mathew105601 (talk) 23:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

OK. I think I agree with you, combine the guides, and split it into subpparts; might be best just to treat this as more of a county/regain then a city. It looks to me like "City of Jacksonville" is simply legalese for "unincorporated Duval County". Whatever legal reasons the term "City of Jacksonville" was defined that way, it does not change Duval County's actual geography. To take an extreme example, it's laughable outside of legal contexts to say that Baldwin (or Maxville) is surrounded by the City of Jacksonville; I can't tell of that's nature or farmland surrounding Baldwin, but it certainly isn't a city (Jacksonville or otherwise). For piratical traveler purposes, 773 sq mi, is a region, not a city or single location. Even New York City is only 302 sq mi, and we treat that as a region. The (Consolidated city-county related) legalese aside, I'm not seeing the difference between Duval County and any other county; it'd make more since to treat Browad County as a single city, it's inhabited area is at least fully unbrnised. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:04, 24 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I haven't been to Jacksonville, but I like where this discussion has gone, and what you're saying makes sense. Just a side point about New York City, though: The reason we treat it as a region is that it has 5 boroughs that are treated as if they were separate cities, and three of the boroughs (the most populous ones) are further divided into district articles, so it's a special case. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:11, 24 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

The boroughs would make it easy to divide up NYC, but isn't the reason the boroughs are treated as separate cities simply because it's impractical something as massive as NYC as a single city, regardless of whatever it's legal status is. It's not like we can't divide up Jacksonville, especially if we find a pre-1968 map. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:24, 24 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

By the way I haven't been to Jacksonville either. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:25, 24 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

As a resident of Jacksonville, I'm happy to see people take up interest in its geography. I agree with both of your understandings. The geographic situation is very similar to New York boroughs, but on a smaller scale of course. Jacksonville acts as the Principle city for area much larger than itself. Within the county, Your identity, whether in Baldwin or the Beaches, is still centered on Jacksonville, in a regionalized way. Here is a thread with a few maps of pre-1968 Jacksonville, you may find it helpful.Mathew105601 (talk) 08:40, 24 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Unless I'm missing something, there's no link to that thread here. —The preceding comment was added by Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk • contribs)

Here you go, (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=9051.0). Sorry about that. —The preceding comment was added by Mathew105601 (talk • contribs)

I was thinking of a map of the county. A map of Old City doesn't help sub-divide the county much, and most present-day maps would simply label the vast-majority of the county as "Jacksonville" which tell us nothing. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 18:13, 24 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi. First of all thanks for your recent contributions. Second of all: There is a policy around here not to link to Wikipedia except in rather rare circumstances. I don't necessarily agree with said policy in each and every case, but keeping it clear and strict avoids endless discussions in every single case. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that. Best wishes and have fun editing! Hobbitschuster (talk) 04:28, 22 November 2015 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the shout out and heads ups. Yeah, I figured I couldn't pepper them everywhere. I was saving them just for the comment boxes on pictures, but I went ahead and removed them. Rather head it off before someone removes it anyway. On another note, pages view to Jacksonville have recently spiked, as have other large cities. Would you happen any idea for what could account for this? Page views have averaged around 15-20 for a while, now it is hovering around 300. Weird. Mathew105601 (talk) 11:38, 22 November 2015 (UTC)Reply

I don't know. But I think there was a discussion in the pub some time ago regarding page views and whether those numbers pass a sanity test. If they are real, one reason could be that a certain search engine has removed its "duplicate " penalty. . .Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:42, 22 November 2015 (UTC)Reply

I notice you haven't edited in a while, but in case you still check into Wikivoyage from time to time, I want to let you know that I support Jacksonville districtification if you know how to carry it out. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:37, 21 August 2021 (UTC)Reply