User talk:Othello95 Voyage Tips and guide

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To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:42, 4 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks a lot for all your edits on Indonesia and articles about Indonesian cities! When you're done with your current round of edits, maybe we should consider working on shortening and summarizing the section on Indonesian history and culture. I'd like to cover all the important points but do so a little more briefly. More importantly, I'd like to make these sections more clearly connected with the experience of traveling. A lot of good work was done on Germany#History to provide relevant links to cities with relics or/and buildings currently in use from each period of history and provide illustrative photos for each period, and perhaps we can use that article as somewhat of a model. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:23, 14 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Ikan. It's been a pleasure working here. I'm a native so I believe I can contribute a lot so that the article is tidy enough to be upgraded. Looking forward to work on the article together. Othello95 (talk) 08:52, 20 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Me too. Thanks for all the edits you've done so far. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:02, 20 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi there! Thanks for your contributions to Thousand Islands National Park! I just wanted to point out that when inserting geo coordinates, we have to use decimal format ( lat=-5.5942 | long=106.5589 ) not minute/second format ( lat= 5°35′39″ | long= 106°33′32″ ). The latter just leaves an error and doesn't put the marker on the map properly. I fixed the two listings in the article already, but when you need to put in more coordinates, you can get decimal coordinates by clicking directly on the map for each article, or you can use a converter like this one if necessary. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks! Texugo (talk) 14:36, 21 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi there. Thank you for linking me to use the converter! I just don't know how to do the conversion! Othello95 (talk) 14:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Well, on that particular page, you just put the coordinates in there and click on "Calc", and then it shows the decimal conversion down below... Texugo (talk) 14:44, 21 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Here's how I add coordinates: I open the dynamic map in another tab (the icon on the right hand side just above the banner) and right-click on the map where I want to put the listing or marker. This opens a "speech bubble" with the coordinates in the correct format, which can be copy pasted into the wikicode. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:53, 21 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

That's how I usually do it too. Texugo (talk) 15:07, 21 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you everyone for the help! I'll make sure I use it. Othello95 (talk) 15:19, 21 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Great work on that! How well do you know Bahasa Melayu? Saya cakap Bahasa Melayu banyak lagi baik daripada Bahasa Indonesia, tapi saya cakap Bahasa Kampung lagi baik daripada Bahasa Standard!

Yang Ikhlas,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:20, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Well, Bahasa Indonesia is actually A LOT similar to Bahasa Melayu, they come from the same root language as far as I know! Saya bicara Bahasa Indonesia sebagai bahasa Ibu (lingua franca), jadi saya bisa mengerti banyak Bahasa Melayu (Awak boleh paham tulisan saya ini?). Now if only I can draw a map of where Indonesian is spoken...

Dengan tulus,

Othello95 (talk) 06:30, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ya, saya faham baik, kecuali perkataan tulus! :-) Saya sudah melawat Indonesia dua kali, juga - pada 1976!! Bila saya berada di Indonesia, saya fikir semua orang faham 90% cakap saya dan saya faham lebih kurang 80% cakapnya. Di Jawa, orang kata saya cakap "Bahasa Dusun." Betullah. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:44, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Wah, Indonesia sudah berubah banyak daripada 30 tahun yang lalu. Sila datang melancong ke sini suatu saat. Memang benar, bahasa Jawa 'kampung' adalah 'dusun'. Tetapi beberapa orang di Sumatra (di Riau & Jambi) memang ada yang punya bahasa ibu Melayu. Othello95 (talk) 10:54, 06 August 2014 (UTC).Reply

Hi, Othello95. As per your question at Talk:Jakarta on how to make a map: I'm no expert at map-making, but you can have a look at Wikivoyage:How to draw static maps and then ask any questions you have at that article's talk page. I don't think you'd want to use a dynamic map for train or bus lines. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:41, 19 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi!

I noticed that you're working on Belitung. I wondered why there are no photos at all in the article, and as I looked at commons:Category:Belitung I can find just old black and white photos by the Dutch - it's like photography wouldn't be allowed there? If you perhaps have some photos from Belitung, it'd be nice if you'd consider uploading them. ϒpsilon (talk) 13:58, 7 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Ypsilon,

I do have photos ready to be uploaded, I just came back from the island last week. But these will be uploaded at a later time when I move to the US next week. My current Internet connection here is too slow to upload all the pictures, thus apparently the upload wizard often lets me down. Watch this space, perhaps some can be made use as a banner! Othello95 (talk) 14:07, 7 September 2014 (UTC).Reply

Hi User:Ypsilon, I already have some color images of Belitung uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, in less than 5 seconds per image. Kindly use them as you wish to charm the Belitung page. I recommend the image that has the people, water, and rocks as a banner, because I think the dimension fits perfectly (with slight modifications of course), but feel free to use just about everything. Thanks! Othello95 (talk) 06:42, 3 October 2014 (UTC).Reply

Hi, User:Othello95. I really appreciate all the editing you've been doing, so I've pretty much left you to your own devices to edit articles about the places you know well, like Jakarta. However, I'd like to ask you to please use edit summaries more, so that when you delete a bunch of listings, people know that they are, for example, of closed restaurants. Basically, any time you make an edit that might be confusing to others or controversial, it's really good to give a brief explanation of your reasons for doing it. Here's one I was surprised by. I figured you would add the information back later after some edits, but so far, you have not. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:38, 13 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Ikan. Terribly sorry about that. Unless there is a really big time reason I have to edit, I will indicate so. But OK, I will do it this time to make everyone clear. Othello95 (talk) 15:15, 13 September 2014 (UTC).Reply

Allow me to introduce myself: I'm a sick old German living out the remaining years of his seventh decade in the centre of Glasgow (although, rather bizarrely, some who should know better think I flit around all over Asia masquerading as a Singaporean).

I rarely add much useful content, but incite an amazing amount of sound and fury by making what I naively regard as small copy-editing improvements and improving the English of articles.

I would much prefer it if Wikivoyage featured higher in search results because I think we have written some good travel guides.

I think that prices are important for many travellers and I tried to introduce a simpler and more logical approach to their notation in Wikivoyage: Wikivoyage_talk:Currency#Growing_like_topsy

However, a few weeks after that reform, the rationalisation was reversed and the current POLICY for Indonesian articles is to be found here: Wikivoyage:Currency#Symbols_and_abbreviations

That is why I was intrigued by this recent edit of yours with the (entirely justifiable) summary of "Sleep: According to the Indonesian wikipedia, the official way to write the currency is with NO spaces: [1], you won't write $ 20.00 instead of $20.00, will you?"

Perhaps you would suggest (in a new section) at Wikivoyage_talk:Currency (with a link to the new discussion from the Indonesia discussion page) that we change policy?

I would certainly support you if you gave me a heads-up after you started the discussion... --W. Frank^email_talk 14:05, 14 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Meanwhile, allow me to introduce myself. I'm an Indonesian living in Jakarta for all my life except the last 1 year in America as a student. And pardon my English as it's only my second language. I seemed to be disturbed by the fact of how to write the amount of currencies in the correct way, because the way the currency is written in this website, in the society, even in the newspaper, are not the same. Regarding this, I have looked on the web and such writing without the space is the correct way, according to the official standard of the Indonesian language (The Perfected Spelling=Ejaan Yang Disempurnakan (EYD)). Hence I altered the article of Wikivoyage:Currency and I have been looking forward to a consultation in the talk page, with no reply up to now except you summoning (pardon me for this language) my talk page about the specific case. There is no clear policy or knowledge about the Rupiah notation system in English as far as I have searched, and I'm probably the only Indonesian Wikivoyager that cares about such small details like this, that's why all this fuss hasn't reached a consensus yet. Until a consensus is reached, I suggest you NOT to alter anything!

While I do like (not support) your idea of the three digit designator in order to avoid ambiguity, I prefer to get my hands off this topic and choose not to involve in any way, because of my still little contribution to Wikivoyage. It's up to anyone who previously brought their issue (you did and I don't know who else) and until I see a consensus that this is the correct approach, do NOT alter anything!Othello95 (talk) 15:25, September 14 2014 (UTC)

I do agree that it is a waste of editor's time putting in (and taking out) spaces until a (new?) consensus has been reached.

However, you will need to argue your case for a change in our current policy at Wikivoyage_talk:Currency. I really do suggest a change to IDR is the easiest since that is less confusing to new editors and readers alike. Thanks for your response.

PS:Thanks for the brief biography; you might want to dial back your English language proficiency rating in the Babel box a bit - perhaps 2?

--W. Frank^email_talk 16:19, 14 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

As I have told you, I am hands off from the discussion on the specific talk page about which denomination is better. I cannot do debates because I don't have the correct argumentation to support any fact considering my docile experience of traveling.But per the current consensus and as stated in the article, the standard is to use Rp instead of IDR. Sure, I can use the three letter designator, but I don't see by any means necessary unless the person directly jumps to Jakarta without seeing the currency of Indonesia, the country Jakarta is a part of.

Here is a quote from the original article that supports my reason: "The three letter ISO 4217 currency codes, like "PHP" for the peso or "USD" for the American dollar, should always be mentioned since travelers may need them for doing funds transfers or for checking exchange rates online. In general they should not be used either in listings or in text, but exceptions can be made as needed to avoid ambiguity."

And per the official standard of the Indonesian language, it is written with NO space. My decision still stands for now. No offense, I'm just following the rules. Go ahead and talk with the administrators in this case if you think your idea is brilliant and I shall follow if your idea is finally the one put into use. Othello95 (talk) 15:39, September 14 2014 (UTC)

With respect, it is precisely because you did not follow the then current rules that I asked you to get involved and support a more logical change. Before you just unilaterally changed them, the "rules" stated quite clearly:

Rp 100 in Indonesia, not Rupiah 100, 100 IDR nor 100 rupiah

--W. Frank^email_talk 17:12, 14 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

In contrast to my reforming zeal with currency symbolisation, I think that we should stick to the most common system of decimalisation throughout the whole English Wikivoyage website to avoid ambiguity and confusion - so please correct this edit you made in contravention of our current MoS. --W. Frank^email_talk 14:12, 14 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Maybe you are too far from Bali now. But myself has difficulty to find proper room when APEC occured in Nusa Dua. I mentioned about 4 and 5 stars hotels and after hunting in internet and contact some travel offices, I got a travel office which has a room slot to rent, it is 3 stars hotel and my room is in the far corner of the hotel and all rooms are occupied. 4 and 5 stars hotels only have limited rooms, totally 3 stars hotels have more rooms, but 3 stars hotels around the conference location are also fully booked. Please don't think that conference involve only a hundred or two hundred delegates, they bring many attendants and also many press people there, furthermore Presidents and many ministers also come complete with attendants and many safety persons.

In long holiday, Jakarta people and many Javanese also come to Bali for short period only, it is typically domestic tourists behaviour. To find 2 stars and 3 stars and even 4 stars hotels like Hard Rock Cafe in Kuta and Legian area are also difficult, except 4 stars hotels in Nusa Dua, because domestic tourists like happy-happy, keramaian and to see other peoples.

Thank you to edit my contribution.Gsarwa (talk) 14:33, 14 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Halo, Pak. Saya tahu Anda orang Indonesia, jadi mari kita bicara dengan Bahasa Indonesia saja karena saya merasa agak susah menangkap Bahasa Inggris Anda. Terima kasih banyak atas kontribusi besar Anda di Wikivoyage.

Mengenai ketersediaan kamar, memang ketika acara-acara sangat besar khususnya saat APEC, kamar-kamar di hotel bintang 3 khususnya dapat habis dipesan, karena memang itu adalah KTT (Konferensi Tingkat Tinggi) yang saya percaya hanya akan sekali saja diadakan di Bali. Menurut saya memang acara APEC adalah acara yang sangat pamungkas karena dihadiri pemimpin tingkat dunia sehingga seharusnya kamar-kamar hotel elit di sekitar Nusa Dua habis dipesan untuk pengamanan dan ajudan2nya. Tetapi berdasarkan yang saya lihat, sejauh ini belum ada acara-acara tingkat besar selain APEC yang menimbulkan berbagai kebingungan saat memesan hotel. Buktinya, apakah hotel2 habis ketika para menteri pariwisata dari seluruh dunia datang untuk rapat di tempat tersebut atau ketika ada kontes Miss World di Bali? Padahal itu termasuk kegiatan MICE juga (Meeting, Incentives, Conference, Exhibitions). Besar kemungkinan hotel di dekat tempat pertemuan (Nusa Dua Convention Center) cepat habis dipesan tetapi bagaimana dengan yang di Uluwatu, Jimbaran, Kuta, Seminyak, Sanur, ataupun Denpasar? Saya percaya kasus APEC tersebut adalah isolated case (terjadi sekali saja). Kalaupun hal seperti itu terjadi lagi, saya merasa perlu adanya antisipasi dengan memesan kamar jauh-jauh hari supaya tidak kocar-kacir saat di sana nanti.

Juga soal orang Indonesia yang liburan di Bali, menurut saya memang kondisi itu akan menimbulkan kerusuhan di hati setiap orang (Jakarta) yang ingin liburan di Bali saat long weekend, namun saya tidak melihat adanya sesuatu yang signifikan sehingga menyebabkan semua kamar habis dipesan, selain selalu ada baiknya untuk memesan jauh-jauh hari. Buktinya, para WNA yang melancong ke Bali mungkin tidak tahu di Indonesia lagi tanggal merah, tapi mereka bisa tiduran di pantai aja tuh. Oke, mungkin saya salah soal ini dan jikalau menurut saya memang itu diperlukan, saya akan bertanggung jawab untuk mengubahnya kembali, tentunya dengan grammar Bahasa Inggris yang baik dan benar. Dan mengenai grammar Bahasa Inggris, Anda tetap diperbolehkan untuk mengedit segala artikel, namun saya akan selalu di belakang untuk mengoreksi grammar Bahasa Inggris Anda. Silahkan kasitahu saya kalau ada pertanyaan.

Terima Kasih. Salam. Othello95(talk), 15:20, 14 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Saya senang Bahasa Ibu anda masih tetap baik. Pertama-tama perlu saya sampaikan bahwa saya tidak memaksakan apa yang saya kontribusikan selalu akan tetap ada di Wikivoyage, karena mungkin tidak sesuai, perbedaan pandangan ataupun adanya hal-hal yang lebih baru. Indonesia dan Bali berkembang sangat cepat. Diperkirakan Indonesia akan menjadi negara ke-7 di dunia pada tahun 2030 dengan jumlah Pendapatan National Kotor/Bruto (GNP) nya - bukan GNP per-kapita lo!

Saya sudah sekitar 20x ke Bali dalam berbagai situasi. Tingkat ketersediaan hotel (occupancy rate) di Bali tidak pernah melebihi 70 persen (rata-rata setahun), bahkan akhir-akhir ini menurun, karena tersaingi adanya villa dan kondotel. Villa biasanya terisi oleh orang asing yang sudah beberapa kali ke Bali untuk jangka waktu menginap lebih dari satu minggu. Kondotel hanya diisi oleh beberapa gelintir orang Indonesia, termasuk saya. Kondotel tetap bukan hotel dan yang pasti ranjang dan kasurnya tidak pernah nyaman. Hotel bintang 4 dan 5 occupancy rate-nya jauh lebih baik dari yang lain dan lebih stabil sepanjang tahun. Hanya saja hotel bintang 4 dan 5 lokasinya terkumpul di Nusa Dua dan menyebar sepanjang Jimbaran. Tentu saja ada hotel bintang 4 di Ubud, tetapi lokasi ini saya katakan jauh dari Nusa Dua tempat biasanya konferensi diadakan. Jauh karena Bali sekarang ini sudah macet di mana-mana bahkan sampai jalan menuju Gianyar atau jalan menuju Candi Dasa. Jadi yang kritis sebenarnya Hotel Bintang 4 dan 5 dan juga Hotel Bintang 3 yang dekat Nusa Dua, karena di Nusa Dua sendiri setahu saya tidak ada Hotel Bintang 3. Hotel Bintang 3 ada di By-pass dan sekarang di Siligita. Di Jimbaran dan Uluwatu Hotel Bintang 3 sangat minim, ini daerah elit. Penyelenggara dan peserta Konferensi biasanya justru memesan hotel lebih dulu dari turis asing (Block order).

Miss World di Bali bahkan sangat sedikit diliput oleh media cetak dan tayang Indonesia. Playboy Indonesia juga ada, tetapi tidak tersedia di Jakarta. Indonesia itu negara yang sangat luas dan sangat bervariasi. Amerika itu negara yang sangat luas dan juga sangat bervariasi, tetapi tetap lebih bervariasi Indonesia. Untuk kuliner, Indonesia tak ada duanya, soto saja ada lebih dari 10 macam, rendang menjadi kuliner nomor satu dunia, makanan Eropa, Amerika, Afrika, Arab, Cina, Rusia, Jepang, Korea, Thailand dan lain-lain mudah dijumpai di Jakarta dan Bali. Ini tak bisa dijumpai di Amerika, bahkan fastfood Amerika Barat dan Amerika Timur berbeda, yang ada di kedua daerah itu adalah Mc Donald, Subway dan Kentucky Fried Chicken. Sayang, Jack in the Box belum ada di Indonesia.

Itulah sedikit pandangan saya, sesuatu yang lokal kadang-kadang sulit dicerna oleh masyarakat internasional. Terimakasih banyak atas perhatiannya.Gsarwa (talk) 15:51, 15 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Baik, Pak/Bu. Terima kasih atas pengertian Anda. Kelihatannya Anda memang lebih nyaman berbicara dengan bahasa Indonesia, dan begitu juga dengan saya :-). Saya memang baru satu tahun belajar di luar negeri sehingga bahasa ibu saya untungnya masih tetap terpakai sampai sekarang. Namun saya akui sudah cukup tertinggal dalam mengetahui perkembangan negara ini yang berjalan sangat cepat. Saya salut atas pengetahuan Anda mengenai beberapa hal ini terutama mengenai Bali, karena saya hanya pergi ke sana 1x sekitar 5 tahun yang lalu. Saya pun juga sebetulnya jarang ke tempat-tempat domestik, kecuali Bandung ataupun Puncak karena dekat dari Jakarta, dan Belitung karena keberadaan famili saya di sana.

Namun dalam hal ini menurut saya ada baiknya klarifikasi Anda tersebut dituangkan secara lebih terstruktur dalam artikel yang bersangkutan. Menurut saya lebih baik menulis kalimat "jalanan di Bali sudah macet sehingga suatu jarak bisa ditempuh dalam waktu lama" di bagian "Understand" supaya turis tetap dapat berkunjung dan mengatur jadwal mereka, daripada menyebutkan "hotel susah dipesan saat ada konferensi" karena dengan demikian setiap kali ada konferensi (dan frekuensinya makin bertambah) semua orang akan menghindari kunjungan ke pulau tersebut, termasuk Ubud dan Singaraja di utara sana yang sebetulnya tidak begitu terpengaruh, apalagi bila hingar bingar soal konferensi tersebut belum jelas. Turis pun bahkan tidak mengetahui (dan tidak mau tahu) apakah ada konferensi di sana ketika mereka sudah sampai di Bali atau bahkan pulang dari sana, yang penting mereka bisa menikmati perjalanan tanpa hambatan berarti. Pulau Bali itu luas, pantai tidak hanya ada Nusa Dua, dan bila orang tidak suka pantai, mereka tidak perlu ke Nusa Dua tapi bisa ke Ubud, Sukowati, atau Pura Besakih. Kalaupun memang mau mengindikasikan demikian, sebaiknya cantumkan daerah Nusa Dua di kalimat tersebut atau di artikel distrik yang bersangkutan.

Saya sejauh ini salut dengan suntingan Anda soal beberapa artikel Anda karena pengetahuan Anda yang cukup banyak soal Indonesia, hanya memang kelemahan Anda adalah beberapa ketidaklancaran Anda menulis dalam bahasa Inggris. Namun lain kali, mohon pikirkan dari sisi seorang turis mengenai apakah yang mereka harus ketahui. Pastinya jika ingin berlibur kita harus memasarkan sesuatu yang positif dari negeri kita, kalaupun ada yang negatif buat sekreatif mungkin supaya tidak ada kesan menghujam. Terutama suntingan Anda soal RUU DPRD di artikel Indonesia yang memang seharusnya tidak perlu dimasukkan karena (belum) ada dampak signifikan terhadap kegiatan wisata (kecuali kalau memang amit-amit akan terjadi kerusuhan massal), dan soal mobil derek di Jakarta, karena memang kita sebagai manusia harus selalu menaati peraturan yang berlaku, kalau soal melawan peraturan ya konsekuensinya memang harus dihukum. Kalaupun memang ada banyak pelanggaran di Jakarta, kita bisa peringatkan mereka supaya tidak tergoda untuk melakukan hal yang sama, saya yakin yang tertangkap itu hanya segelintir dari 90% orang yang sudah memarkir kendaraan di tempat yang semestinya, namun memang yang melanggar tersebut adalah bahan berita yang sedap karena dibumbui sehingga terkesan Jakarta itu kacau.

Senang berbagi pandangan dengan Anda. Ke depan saya tunggu kontribusi Anda di sini karena selama beberapa bulan ke depan saya tidak akan sering berada di sini, saya harus kembali ke luar untuk studi. Jika ada pertanyaan mengenai grammar bahasa Inggris, silahkan email saya. Semoga kolaborasi ini dapat membantu ke depannya. Terima kasih atas perhatian Anda.Othello95(talk), 16:40, 15 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Terimakasih atas pendapat anda. Saya belum pernah ke Belitung, tetapi beberapa kali ke Bangka dan juga pernah menginap 2 malam di Parai Resort. Kesan saya Pantai Parai cantik, tetapi panasnya minta ampun, padahal baru jam 07:00 pagi, saya berjalan ke luar hotel, ke jalan di depan hotel ke kiri dan ke kanan sejauh 1 kilometer, tak ada apa-apa, karena ini resort. Kalau saya menulis mengenai Pantai Parai, maka akan saya sebutkan pantainya cantik, tetapi pantainya sangat panas, karena banyak batu-batu besar dan memang gersang. Saya pikir ini cukup adil, karena saya menyebutkan hal baik dan buruk, walaupun cantik dan panas itu relatif.

Mengenai reformasi dan sebagainya, saya melihatnya sebagai ilustrasi, karena Peristiwa Kekacauan Reformasi sudah berlalu, jadi mengenai perubahan UU DPRD juga jangan dikaitkan apakah berpengaruh pada turis atau tidak. Dan apakah turis sebenarnya peduli siapa saja yang pernah jadi presiden.

Mengenai parkir liar dan derek ini merupakan hal baru buat Indonesia dan tampaknya berhasil, jumlah derek masih kurang, tetapi daerah-daerah yang pernah kena derek menjadi (lebih) tertib. Kemacetan mulai berkurang, tetapi penyebab kemacetan bukan hanya parkir liar. Tetapi ini adalah usaha untuk mengurangi kemacetan dan bukan hanya sekedar 'law enforcement', seperti halnya pembuatan MRT yang lebih bertujuan untuk menghindari adanya traffic congestion di Jakarta dan bukan hanya sekedar menambah sarana publik.

Bagaimanapun saya berterimakasih atas tawaran anda untuk terus berkomunikasi, semoga anda dapat studi dengan baik dan banyak mendapat manfaat dari 'cross culture'. Saya tidak tahu apa studi anda, tetapi salah satu negara bagian yang mungkin patut untuk dikunjungi adalah Negara Bagian Texas yang relatif kaya, konservatif, banyak Hispanik, terdapat kesenjangan miskin-kaya yang cukup besar, signage dalam dua bahasa, tetapi jangan berharap banyak dengan pemandangan alamnya yang menurut saya biasa-biasa saja. Kaum Hispanik akan terus bertambah, entah apa jadinya 10 tahun lagi, tetapi semoga tidak terjadi kerusuhan seperti di Ferguson yang memakan waktu lebih dari seminggu, padahal penduduknya hanya 18,000 orang. Dan pahamilah mengenai minority-majority ataupun majority-minority. Salam Sejahtera dan Bahagia Selalu.Gsarwa (talk) 04:14, 16 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Your suggestion about "any details about a site, especially how to get there, must be included in the specific region article" is normative. Can you usher me which article should be? Thank you for your attention.Gsarwa (talk) 05:54, 29 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

As far as I know, the site is at Cianjur regency, so more details about how to get there and some more about the site should be written at the Cianjur article. Othello95 (talk) 05:59, 29 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your suggestion, Cianjur article is exist, but Cianjur Regency article is not exist, and also no Gunung Padang Megalithic Site article. I hope someday there are Gunung Padang Megalithic Site article with same class as Borobudur article which got status Star article.Gsarwa (talk) 15:10, 29 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

The easiet way is delete about Seaworld Ancol, I have thinking about it. But it is not formally closed, just Ancol as landlord (means only has the land) blockade visitors to enter seaworld by fence and Ancol's security personnel (satpam) don't allow visitors to enter seaworld. But visitors can still visit seaworld, because Ancol's security personnel have no right for it. Seaworld itself is still open for visitors and also maintenance and feeding are also done. The problem is there are so many vouchers have been released and there also voucher bundles with goods are still sold. It is my concern, because visitors are not only foreign tourists and Wikivoyage is also for Indonesian people.Gsarwa (talk) 16:07, 1 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Gsarwa. Apparently I just read the news from detik.com last night that SeaWorld did open and its labors work as usual, the reason why it was closed to visitors is that because of the legal dispute between the theme park operator and the aquarium, resulting in its entrance blocked by security personnel. While you were right about this, it is better not to go into details about what made the dispute, I don't think visitors want to know that other than the fact it is temporarily closed. So here's an example: "Seaworld Aquuarium" (temporarily closed to visitors due to legal disputes).

By the way, I noticed your English is getting better now. Let me know if you have questions or objections. Othello95 (talk) 18:30, 1 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your opinion. Now, you have know the backgrond. Editors without know the background well, sometimes overtrim and even mislead. Your English is eloquent and can consice too much. English is important for communication, but without adequate substance, maybe will confuse the readers. Some native English Wikipedians are not overtrim as you are, please mentions that not all the readers know about the background, as example when we say ojek as a motorcycle taxi, non-Indonesian readers maybe wonder what is it.Gsarwa (talk) 01:16, 2 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

I did comment on one of your edits, though, at Talk:Indonesia#Accuracy vs. attractiveness in descriptions and would like your input there.

How are things going in Seattle?

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:58, 13 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

Hi Ikan Kekek, I have replied to the talk topic there. ICYMI, basically my first impression after seeing the original description is that Kalimantan is just a plain old island with only bad conditions developing there. That is when I feel the urge to change the description to more fittingly address what tourists have to see while going there instead of just reporting the bad things. However, as I no longer edit here that frequent, I may have not known a lot of the new and existing policies regarding articles. I apologize for this matter if it tarnishes the credibility of Wikivoyage because of my act.

Things are going well here although because of mounting college work, I no longer update articles that frequent. But as soon as my holiday starts the following weekend (yay for 3 months of summer and no rain!), I should be able to redo finding out about attractions fitting into the Seattle article of Wikivoyage. My dream is to make the city a DotM article in time for summer, which is the primary time of year for tourists to flock to Seattle, but my "English as a Second Language" factor ultimately rates this article down because of the inappropriate usage of phrases or words. I only want to help to make the Seattle article accurate and enticing for tourists to visit this beautiful city. I apologize for any inconvenience caused and I'm looking forward to work with ANYONE on this site to make the Seattle article one of the best in Wikivoyage, especially regarding my grammar.

Dengan ikhlas,

Othello95 (talk) 08:31, 14 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

I've also been looking at the Seattle article as a potential DotM. I'd be happy to help with copy editing. Your work on the Indonesia article can be discussed further at Talk:Indonesia, but I don't want you to feel bad about it, just for us to come to a consensus on a phrasing that best serves the traveller. You certainly have nothing to apologize for. Good luck on your finals! Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:34, 14 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

Hi there! The Seattle article does look good at a first glance (with some really pretty photos!) and it would be nice to have it as DotM next summer. The districts are in a quite good shape already, some of them could maybe even be upgraded to Guide status. Some district articles would need to get their eateries and lodging arranged into budget/mid-range/splurge. The article should probably be nominated before mid-autumn to ensure its place next summer (as of now articles are nominated 9-12 months before they are featured).

Concerning the descriptions of destinations, I do think we should bring up at least one reason to visit each place we have an article for. Of course if there are unpleasant things visitors will likely encounter, this should be mentioned too. Don't worry about getting your edits reverted, everybody here gets at every now and then. Also, don't worry much about your English, which BTW isn't particularly bad. Probably a third or more of the contributors to English Wikivoyage are non-native speakers — including myself — but that hasn't done any damage Wikivoyage so far, instead we have superb articles of places where none our contributors from the USA, UK etc. may have visited, e.g. destinations in Pakistan. Ikan and others will help with copyediting if there's something wrong with your grammar. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:06, 14 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

Hello, Othello95. I hope you're having a good summer. When you have a chance, please have a look at Talk:Indonesian phrasebook#Use of "Apakah" and Talk:Indonesian phrasebook#Pseudo-transliteration for glottal stops.

Yang ihklas,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:41, 25 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

Hello, Othello95!

I don't want to focus on this at Talk:German phrasebook, but this edit is seriously misleading to native English-speakers. The first syllable of "Könnte" doesn't rhyme with "cow". I'd suggest "kn-tuh". And "mit-ne-men" is a lot less clear than simply keeping the German spelling, mitnehmen, but the clearest would be "mit-neh-mehn". The point is to avoid being misleading or ambiguous to the extent possible.

Best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:04, 19 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

Hi there,

My sincere apologies about this. I actually have picked up some German as I'm taking a course and going there next month, but I was somehow unable to transliterate how to say the words similar to an English speakers, since I'm not a native speaker of both languages anyway. Also I'm editing this spontaneously on my phone, so I'm editing this not on a clear and focused mind regarding the transliterations.

For the mitnehmen, based on what I often heard from multiple conversations, the h is silent, it kind of sounds more like mit-nay-men. This is the same case with sehen (to see) where it's actually more close to se-yen. I believe this is more of an exception than the norm for the language. If it doesn't make sense for the English speakers anyway, I'll reedit them later.

Othello95 (talk) 10:00, 19 Novermber 2018 (UTC)

Apologizing is excessive. :-) You're doing the work; I'm just talking to you about the transliterations. I'm well aware that the "h" is silent in "mitnehmen" and "sehen". Using "h" in a transliteration such as "neh" or "mehn" doesn't imply pronouncing the "h" but does show more clearly what vowel is expected. Without the "h", "ne" could be "neh", "nee" (like "knee") or even "nə". Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:00, 19 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

Hey Othello95 - I noticed the good curfew info that you added to Sydney Airport. However, much of that info is already in the article in the Wait section. Perhaps you could quickly revisit your edits, looking at the whole article, and see what needs to be there. I see why you'd want to call this out at the top, but perhaps a reference, or infobox might be better. WDYT? --Inas (talk) 05:52, 27 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

Hi Inas, I'm sorry that I didn't notice, that such info is already in the wait section. The reason I'm writing it is in terms of travelers who need a visa. Just to know, there are many travelers that require a visa to visit or even transit in Australia, and being unaware that they cannot transit overnight airside at Sydney Airport, as opposed to other major Australian airports. However I thought it's best to put it into an info box in the beginning and actually reiterate the curfew and overnight at the airport at the Sleep section, because as far as I'm aware, the Wait section is for what you can do while transiting between flights within a reasonably long amount of time. --Othello95 (talk) 06:00, 27 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

Yep. Agree. We need to highlight what's important, but also not be repetitive. Thanks for attacking this. --Inas (talk) 06:42, 27 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

RMaung (WMF) 14:32, 9 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

RMaung (WMF) 19:13, 20 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

RMaung (WMF) 17:03, 4 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

Othello95, it's good to see you editing again, and I hope you've been well.

I invite your participation in the once-more-active Wikivoyage talk:Airport Expedition#Ngurah Rai International Airport thread, for which Talk:Bali#Get in: By plane: The Airport, which you also started, is also relevant.

Yang ikhlas,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:23, 14 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi there. Thanks for creating the article for Vancouver International Airport. When you get a chance, can you please add it to the list at Airport articles? If everyone who creates a new airport article remembers to do this, the list will always be complete and up-to-date. Cheers, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:40, 5 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

	The Wikivoyage Barncompass
	I appreciate your hard work on Vancouver International Airport, Ngurah Rai International Airport, and Soekarno-Hatta International Airport. Keep up the progress and I look forward to look at any new airport articles that will come out. AdamT777 (talk) 16:31, 5 April 2021 (UTC)Reply