User talk:StellarD Voyage Tips and guide

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To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here. --Saqib (talk) 12:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Welcome, and thanks for all your great contributions to Arizona articles! Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for the welcomes Saqib and Ikan Kekek, it's great to be here! --StellarD (talk) 06:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi there! I noticed you're currently living in Doha. While I've never been there myself, I took an interest in Qatar and have been trying to improve the country's articles on the site as a model. I saw you made some good contributions to Doha, and look forward to many more if you're able =) If you don't mind, is it okay if I ask you questions about the country from time to time? For example, I'm not sure whether Rayyan should get its own article or just be merged into Doha. Look forward to hearing from you. All the best, James A ▪ talk 13:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi James, thank you for commenting. Feel free to ask any questions you may have – I may not always know the answer but will do my best to find out.

The town of Al-Rayyan is essentially a suburb of Doha, and most residents think of it as a part of the city. This 'suburb' has sights currently listed in the Doha article, including Mathar (Arab Museum Of Modern Art) and the Doha Zoo. On the other hand, the administrative district of Al-Rayyan (confusingly called a 'municipality' on Wikipedia) I think should probably have a separate article, as it has several sights worth visiting which are a fair distance from Doha proper.

I can start adding entries to an Al-Rayyan article if you decide to set one up. (I can do it myself eventually, but am still getting up to speed with Wikivoyage protocols.)

Best wishes, StellarD (talk) 10:08, 8 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Agree with Stellar. Al-Rayyan deserve a separate page. Also, Qatar article lack region list map, James do you think we should have one? --Saqib (talk) 10:24, 8 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the comments. We could possible divide Doha into districts, and the town of Al-Rayyan could be one of them. Only three or four would be needed, as I don't think Doha is a huge city with dozens of tourist attractions. Any ideas how it could be split?

About the administrative district of Al-Rayyan, I understand it is a very different thing that covers most of western Qatar! Some articles for major towns/cities already exist at Qatar#Cities. Are there any more that are worth mentioning? Dividing Qatar into regions, like Saqib mentions, might not be worth it if there isn't enough information and destinations to fill each one (5 to 7 at least). Most travellers only visit the outlying towns on daytrips from Doha anyhow rather than sleeping the night there. Thoughts? James A ▪ talk 12:20, 8 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure Doha is large enough to warrant being divided into districts, although that may change in a few years as the city continues to grow. In the Al-Rayyan suburb there are only a couple of sights worth mentioning. As for Qatar itself, there are about a dozen places of interest outside of Doha, scattered around the peninsula.

Perhaps I can continue to add content to both Doha and Qatar, and a decision to divide or not can be made in the future as the pages get fleshed out...?

StellarD (talk) 20:29, 8 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Yes sure Stellar, please keep contributing to articles. Happy writing. --Saqib (talk) 21:26, 8 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Sounds good to me. If you do find there is a good non-Doha sight/town that deserves an article, feel free to create it and we can discuss merging if necessary later. Thanks for the help. James A ▪ talk 11:49, 11 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your recent edits! You'll probably know better than me, but I'm a bit confused as to the real name of the northern city described at Al Ruwais. There appears to be a few names for the conglomeration, including that, Ar Ru'ays, Al Shamal, Madinat al Shamal, Abu Dahlouf among others. What would be the best name for the article? Preferably what is signposted on the roads, maps and by tourist organisations, but I'm not fully sure. James A ▪ talk 08:13, 20 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi James, on my country map the conglomeration is described as 'Madinat al Shamal', which incorporates the smaller towns of Abu Dhulouf and Al Ruwais. My main reference source (Explorer Qatar Residents' Guide) mentions only Ruwais, not Abu Dahlouf or Madinat Al Shamal, as a point of interest, but also states that the names Ruwais and Shamal are used interchangeably. Lonely Planet mentions only Ruwais. The only noteworthy activities in Ruwais itself are beach-related, and other sights are all located outside of the conglomeration. 'Ruwais' or 'Al Ruwais' seems to be the standardized romanization from the Arabic.

'Al Shamal' is shown on my main map as the larger administrative district, which covers the northern tip of the peninsula and includes the fortress of Al Zubara (expected to be listed as a UNESCO site this month, BTW).

I suggest perhaps not having a unique page for Al Ruwais / Madinat al Shamal, but rather listing it on a page for the district Al Shamal.

StellarD (talk) 10:38, 20 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Interesting, thanks for the info. Hopefully Zubarah is listed this month! About having an article for the larger Al Shamal district, that's always a possibility. We could then list the numerous abandoned villages and towns along the coastline between Zubarah and Al Ruwais. For now, as a reminder for the future, I've listed them on the Al Ruwais article. If we did create a Al Shamal district article, we should also create articles for the other districts in Qatar, but it's a question of whether they would get enough content. Generally, I believe we try and create articles for the major towns and then if there is no relevant region/district, then put info about nearby attractions in the nearest town, which in this case would be Al Ruwais. James A ▪ talk 10:53, 20 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Alright then, I'll add future entries to Al Ruwais, and other sights around Qatar I'll add as entries to the closest city. StellarD (talk) 11:13, 20 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Okay, great. If we find it just isn't logical for travellers, we can always move the information later. James A ▪ talk 11:17, 20 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi Stellar, you sure seem to know a lot about Doha, have you considered becoming a Docent? --Saqib (talk) 10:14, 7 July 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi Saqib, no I hadn't thought of it but I'll consider it now – thank you for the suggestion. Best wishes, StellarD (talk) 19:33, 7 July 2013 (UTC)Reply

	The Wikivoyage Barncompass
	Whenever I've looked at Recent changes during the last month I've seen you adding content to some Arizona or Middle East article. So I'd like to give you a Barncompass to show appreciation for your great work on Wikivoyage. Or should we call it a "sheriff star", as Arizona is in the Old West? Keep up your good work! --ϒpsilon (talk) 08:52, 1 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, Ypsilon! And I like the idea of a sheriff's star :) StellarD (talk) 11:39, 1 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

I also want you to know that I nominated Doha for Destination of the month. You may want to comment there. Kudos for all your great work! Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:20, 1 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

How exciting – thanks for the heads up! StellarD (talk) 20:15, 1 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi, StellarD. I'm sorry some people are nitpicking your pagebanner so hard. I hope there will be a consensus minus LtPowers to at least put your pagebanner in Northern Arizona, which has none.

Thanks, as always, for the wonderful work you do!

Best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:09, 2 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Ikan,

Thank you for your kind support and encouragement, I do appreciate it. However I feel rather like I've been bullied, and have decided to take a break from Wikivoyage for awhile. I'm sure eventually some sort of consensus will be reached without my input.

Best wishes,

StellarD (talk) 12:18, 2 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

How many people is it really, though? More than one? More than two? If you do take a break, I hope you come back. You are one of the best article-creators on this site. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:25, 2 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

It is one person, and my life is currently stressful enough without the extra nonsense. In a few weeks I will be relocating from Qatar to Mexico and I have no shortage of things to do in the interim. I do intend to return, I just need a break. Thank you for understanding! –StellarD (talk) 12:39, 2 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I do understand. Life is more important than what we do here for fun. May the move be smooth and a blessing for you! Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:44, 2 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

StellarD, good luck for your moving and hope to see you back soon! Danapit (talk) 08:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Quite a move, from Qatar to Mexico! Good luck with that. Breaks can be good - or just drop by whenever you need a break from the business of the rest of life (that's what I do ;-)) . Whatever you do, see you back soon! JuliasTravels (talk) 10:23, 3 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Are you in Mexico now? Nice to see you editing again. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:21, 23 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm still in Doha until the end of the week, with a little extra time at the moment. Next up is a couple weeks in Arizona, and then Mexico.

It's quite addictive, editing here – it requires a lot of discipline to stay away ;) –StellarD (talk) 20:36, 23 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, StellarD. I hope you are doing well in your new home.

It seems like most of the photos of the Sultan Qaboos Grand Mosque in Muscat have been deleted from Commons. As you can imagine, this has a very deleterious effect on the Muscat article, and the photo in its Destination of the month nomination was among those deleted. If you happen to have any photos of your own floating around that you might be able to upload to Commons or know any friends currently in the area who could take some good photos, that would be great.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:50, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

User:Saqib helped out by uploading a number of Flickr photos to Commons, so I was able to take care of the most pressing needs for the article and Dotm nomination, but nevertheless, have a look when you can. I'm still hoping for a photo to replace the magnificent image of the Svarovski crystal in the dome of the mosque that was deleted from Commons. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:40, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Nevermind, it looks like any images of buildings in Oman have to be uploaded locally to Wikivoyage as non-free content. Have a look at this link. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:47, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi IK, thanks for the notice re: the Grand Mosque. Unfortunately I don't have any good images of this building, and clearly FOP will eventually be a problem with other newer buildings as well. I have usable, but not great, photos of the Qasr Al Alam Royal Palace and of the interior of the Al Bustan Palace Hotel, but not of the Royal Opera House or of the Grand Hyatt. And unfortunately I don't personally know anyone now in Muscat.

In the next couple of days I'll go ahead and start looking for some suitable alternatives on Flickr to upload directly to Wikivoyage, unless Saqib beats me to it.

Best,

StellarD (talk) 15:51, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

P.S. I'm settled in, and now just need to improve my (nonexistent) Spanish… :P

Gracias y buena suerte. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:21, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Stellar. I saw you uploaded two photos but I'm afraid those two photos will have to be deleted and re-uploaded with low resolution because those images fall under "Fair usage" rule. --Saqib (talk) 15:54, 13 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Saqib. I'm afraid I don't understand – I thought it was OK to upload FOP-problem images locally to WV. If these have to be deleted and re-uploaded, then would the same not also apply for images in Qatar and for the UAE, as well as to any other country with FOP restrictions? Also, what exactly are the dimensions of 'low resolution' images? The Muscat images in question are each 1280×853. StellarD (talk) 16:24, 13 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

You're right, the same would apply for every country where there's no FOP. As for dimensions of non-free images, I think lets keep the width less than 800 pixels. --Saqib (talk) 17:06, 13 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

¡Hola!

I see you've been doing some nice work on Mexican articles lately, and was thinking of nominating one of them for OtBP for March or April 2015. Especially San Miguel de Allende and Guanajuato look really good. Now they are both at Usable status, and to be nominated an article needs to be a Guide ("travelers should not need to consult any other guide"). I would imagine there's not much missing before their statuses can be upgraded (some coordinates?), although you certainly know these towns/cities better.

I'd also like to ask, which one of them is your favorite/would you like to have featured? ϒpsilon (talk) 08:45, 4 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Ypsilon, it would be great to highlight some Mexican destinations. I think Guanajuato is almost at guide status, but is missing some details on hiking and the funicular (under 'do'). San Miguel de Allende still requires some work before it will be at guide level: the 'sleep' section needs to be updated, cleaned up, geotagged; I'd like to add several places to 'eat'; and several key attractions still need to be added or expanded.

I think Guanajuato is probably more appropriate for an OtBP nomination than San Miguel, principally because San Miguel is firmly on the tourist circuit, especially with English-speakers. Guanajuato is equally interesting and scenic yet most of its visitors are from elsewhere in Mexico, particularly Mexico City.

I'll continue to work on both articles though regardless of any potential OtBP nomation :)

Best, StellarD (talk) 23:19, 5 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

Great! I recently discovered that Americas south of the US+Africa+Oceania (except Australia) together make up just a little over 8% of all the articles we've featured over the years, therefore it's nice to find quality articles from places like Mexico that can be put on the Main Page.

Of course, if as you bring more articles up to guide status, we can feature them too later on. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:44, 6 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, User:StellarD. I just had a look at your post on my user talk page and looked at the link. It's really best to ignore people who act like jerks, and let admins and other regulars help set them straight.

I'm on the road with limited time to edit, but I'd like to assure you that you can count on regulars, including other admins, to take care of things.

My very best to you,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:07, 19 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hello Stellar. May I know why you removed yourself as docent of Doha? I hope you're not disappointed due to recent issue with a newbie. Happy writing! --Saqib (talk) 15:45, 21 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Saqib, thanks for for your concern. I'm always happy to discuss things civilly and politely, but I do not like dog fights and this is no longer fun.

I could respond to the accusation of lying, factual inaccuracies, and false assumptions. However, if I did respond it would be an invitation for further abuse, while administrators express concern but do nothing and allow it to continue.

I have removed all Qatar articles from my watchlist and will no longer contribute to them. And as I'm no longer living in Doha and have no plans to return in the foreseeable future, I doubt I'll be much help to future visitors.

Best wishes, and happy trails. –StellarD (talk) 22:28, 21 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Such things do happens Stellar. As far I recall, the newbie was just harsh with you but Xe was not using any abusive language so no admin could block him but in my opinion IK and Ryan did their best to resolve the issue. I would say that text (related to getting in jail for eye-contact) was just a little thing but it could make big thing if not timely fixed. Further I would say this was a minor issue and I wish this won't lead to a big issue (you get disappointed) because that will be a big loss for us. With love from Pakistan! --Saqib (talk) 09:23, 22 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

	The Photographer's Barnstar
	Both for your dedication to Wikivoyage as well donating some brilliant photographs. You're a great Wikivoyager and a talented photographer. Please keep up your great work. Saqib (talk) 12:00, 22 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Well deserved, and also thanks for your great contributions to various Mexican articles over the last months. You're really one of WV's top editors.

Really sad that you had to run into the rude newbie (??) the other day, though surely you remember that 99% of the Wikivoyagers are not like he. I was tempted to write that user a quite juicy reply at the Talk:Doha, but figured it wouldn't really make things any better (having myself had the displeasure to acquaint a whole quintet of trolls about a year ago, some of who still drop in here for a couple of days every few months under different shapes and user names). ϒpsilon (talk) 12:46, 22 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

LOL. You're soo funny YPSI. Sometimes your comments gave me good chunk. Do you know you know you're "Shahzada" of Wikivoyage world. Stay happy and lots of love to you as well from Pakistan! --Saqib (talk) 13:00, 22 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you both for the kind words. And I guess I should consider it a badge of honor to have my own personal troll…! –StellarD (talk) 04:47, 23 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, that's what the Internet is like, if you think about it. Unfortunately, a bit of a thick skin is needed, but at least there is some moderation here. :-) I already mentioned that you provide some of the best content on this site, so I can only reiterate that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:19, 26 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for starting that discussion. I agree that we should get a consensus and use that for all Mexican articles, so I won't make further edits regarding pesos until we do. Ground Zero (talk) 14:02, 3 January 2017 (UTC)Reply

So are we good with using "M$" as the notation? If so, I'll start replacing "pesos" with that in the articles I've edited. Thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 16:10, 4 January 2017 (UTC)Reply

I think 'M$' and 'US$' are a good compromise. It would be great if we could generate a bot to replace all the instances of '$ MXN' and USD because I've edited quite a few Mexican articles. I don't know the first thing about bots, though. –StellarD (talk) 17:47, 4 January 2017 (UTC)Reply

Oh I wish! I don't have the skills to create a bot, I'm afraid. Ground Zero (talk) 20:24, 4 January 2017 (UTC)Reply

Nice article! Ground Zero (talk) 13:08, 11 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

I'm not going to edit war over this, but I do want to let you know that my edits were not me being fussy, but trying to improve the article.

On not using spaces with slashes:

• thepunctuationguide
• Grammarly

Here's why I remove "simply" almost every time I see it:

• [1]

The Valencia article is looking really good. Great work. Ground Zero (talk) 14:10, 21 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for choosing to not escalating this into an edit war; however I do not understand why you insist on continuing the argument. Regarding slashes, did you not read the link I provided in my edit summaries? And I do find some words, when used sparingly, can add nuance – not useful for a technical manual, perhaps, but useful for a travel guide. However, if you find these words so distasteful perhaps others will agree to include them on this list.

While I appreciate that you may have good intentions, please consider your tone when interacting with other editors – a heavy-handed, authoritarian approach is not conducive to collaboration. In most of my interactions with you I have felt hounded and even bullied, and it has made Wikivoyage, for me, a lot less fun. Like others here I contribute content because I enjoy it, but when my overall experience here becomes on balance more unpleasant than not I will choose to spend my time elsewhere.

Best, StellarD (talk) 08:40, 22 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

StellarD, I was very much taken aback by your post, and have taken a bit of a break from editing to reflect on your comments.

I never want to be authoritarian or heavy-handed, or to hound or bully other editors. I agree that this is not conducive to building a collaborative project.

I have reviewed our interactions, and I have trouble finding justification for your comments. But if I've overlooked any interactions, please let me know.

Our first interaction was early in my time on Wikivoyage, when I began cleaning up the wide variety of currency notations in Mexican articles. You didn't agree with the notation I was using, and began a discussion at [[Wikivoyage_talk:Currency#Mexican_pesos], which luckily I happened to notice. You could have let me know about, or opened a discussion with me, but whatever, I have found that having a thin skin when working in collaborative projects is a bad idea, and didn't take offence. Instead I let you know on your talk page that I would stop changing things until the issue had been resolved. We then worked out an approach that we were both happy with, and I applied it across most of the Mexico articles.

Our second interaction was on my talk page about the Alsergrund Jewish Cemetery. I still disagree with leaving that statement in thete, but I decided to leave it alone because I found that I was not having fun when you started throwing around phrases like "zealously removing information" in response to my attempts to have a calm discussion about the issue.

Our third interaction appears immediately above this section of your talk page where I complimented you on your work on the Alcossebre article.

Our fourth interaction that I can find is this one, over a year after the first one. I posted the above to let you know that your preferred style isn't right, and yes, I understand that it isn't wrong. It is a question of preferred style, not being right or wrong. Although I find the space-slash-space style to be an eyesore, because you have put so much work into the article, I'm going to drop the issue. Not using "simply" is not something specific to writing an online travel guide, it is a matter of not being condescending to readers, which is what writers should strive for in all writing. So I don't think it belongs in wta. By the way, phrases like "did you not read the link I provided in my edit summaries?", are not usually part of friendly discourse. They may Wikivoyage less fun.

If you have other examples of our interactions that I have overlooked, please let me know what they are. I would like to review my approach in those cases too.

I will endeavour to check the tone of my interactions with other editors, and I hope that you will endeavour to remember that Wikivoyage is "the travel guide that anyone can edit", and not take offence when they do so.

I hope that we can put this behind us and return to building this great project. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 03:39, 25 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

I had no problems at all with our first interactions regarding currency notations in Mexico and in Oman, and found your input and edits very helpful. I have found most of your other edits also to be very helpful. I have full expectation that others occasionally take issue with my own contributions – this is indeed the nature of a wiki. My concern is the apparent unwillingness during disagreements to acknowledge the validity of other viewpoints and to respond angrily in those cases when the other holds his/her ground.

With Calp, after an edit war and a very heated (and in my view less than civil) exchange I truly felt hounded to accept a change for which there ended up being no consensus.

Regarding Alsergrund Jewish Cemetery, I used to live in Vienna and have visited countless times – I know the place well. The city is generally good at keeping its web pages up-to-date, and these restoration projects often proceed at a snail's pace. In hindsight I suppose I should have mentioned another nearby Jewish cemetery (closed to the public) which has been undergoing restoration work for over ten years. I was taken aback however by your unwillingness to concede the point to someone with local knowledge and local contacts, and after your final very unfriendly reply concluded that for you it was most important to win the argument. I decided at this point to remove myself from the exchange and to minimize any future engagement.

As for wording, well, we just have different opinions (no condescension intended). Regarding spaces and slashes, I used a different source than you did. So what? Why is it so important to always be right? Perhaps we are both right, and we can finally drop this nonsense!

In any case, I thank you for being receptive enough to engage in a constructive dialogue. I too hope we can move on from this very unpleasant episode.

Best, StellarD (talk) 11:17, 25 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Regarding Calp, I looked at the edit history. I made only one edit, which you reverted. I then went to the talk page, explained my edits, and asked you to "please reconsider your revert". Unless someone has changed the visibility on some edits to the article, I think you are mistaken in describing that as an edit war.

In the ensuing discussion on the policy, I would say that we were both involved in the heated discussion, as other editors noted, and your comments were as heated as mine were. I wasn't happy about how that discussion went either, and resolved to try to take a calmer approach. I know that I don't always succeed.

With regard being unwilling to recognize other viewpoints as being valid, I feel the same way about your comments. I feel that you are dismissive my the points that I make.

With respect to Alsergrund Jewish Cemetery, I did acknowledge the importance of local knowledge during the discussion. The dispute was about the aging of the information. I believe that a current website would take precedence over a personal visit from a year ago. You disagreed. The discussion seemed to me to be civil until you wrote "before zealously removing information". I now regret having responded in kind, and in the future, I will do my best to refrain from responding to remarks like that. You might want to consider whether that sort of comment helps resolve a disagreement.

On slashes and spaces, as I noted above, I don't see either of us as being right, but that's the same thing as both of us being right. I think we can agree on that.

Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 12:46, 25 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

This style recommends:

• Be conversational and informal when writing articles.

Writing that a fort "is set" on a rocky outcropping instead being "situated on" is less formal. Please don't revert edits that improve the writing style.

• Be concise.

Please don't revert edits that delete filler words and redundancies.

You must understand that anything you (or I or anyone else) writes in Wikivoyage can and will be edited by others. Ground Zero (talk) 16:12, 29 March 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi StellarD. Hope you're keeping well. I notice you've been inactive for more than a year. Just checking, are you still available to answer questions as docent for Sierra Vista? All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:36, 4 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi ThunderingTyphoons!, I no longer wish to be a docent here, and would appreciate being removed from the docent list. Thanks, StellarD (talk) 17:47, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Great, thanks for your reply. I'll remove your username. Regards, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:43, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Reply