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Other former discussions
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Gulf of Mexico
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- No. Per Wikivoyage:Naming conventions, we care only about what names are most used in English. Official names are of no relevance. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:58, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- Some Americans will call it "Gulf of America", others will call it "Gulf of How does this Lower the Price of Eggs?". Until it catches on in the U.S. we needn't worry about it. Ground Zero (talk) 18:34, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- Also no – I doubt many people will fall onto Trump's stupidity. --SHB (t | c | m) 21:26, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- No. One analogous case is Persian Gulf where we have the text:
- "Persian Gulf" has been the usual term in English for centuries; this goes back at least to the Romans calling it "Sinus Persicus". It is sometimes also called the "Arabian Gulf", mainly in Arab countries.
- As I see it we might at most need a similar comment on "Gulf of America" if and when that term comes into general use. As GZ says, we certainly should not worry about it yet, Pashley (talk) 22:38, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- Haha, I had a feeling this was going to come up. I agree with everyone else. Trump is just playing politics at this point. Let's stick with solely calling it the Gulf of Mexico unless this or some other term becomes widespread. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 22:46, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- Another analogous case would be the South China Sea, which Filipinos call the West Philippine Sea and Vietnamese call the East Sea. But OK, I'm happy to wait and see if "Gulf of America" actually gains traction the U.S. If it turns out that Democrats stick with "Gulf of Mexico" while Republicans adopt "Gulf of America" (which is certainly possible given the polarisation of American politics), then it becomes a more complex issue as to what to call it. The dog2 (talk) 23:51, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- Haha, I had a feeling this was going to come up. I agree with everyone else. Trump is just playing politics at this point. Let's stick with solely calling it the Gulf of Mexico unless this or some other term becomes widespread. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 22:46, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- Absolutely not. Mrkstvns (talk) 00:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- As with anything political motivated, let's wait and see what status is after the midterm election. 90.233.200.244 15:07, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- I doubt things will suddenly change in 2026 either. --SHB (t | c | m) 02:34, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- Suddenly?! I don't think so either, it's either descent or ascent from here. 95.203.20.51 03:12, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- Point being US federal midterm elections aren't likely to cause a shift in usage. --SHB (t | c | m) 03:15, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- Point being that midterm election will be the benchmark compared to now. 95.203.20.51 03:26, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- Okay buddy. Whatever you say. --SHB (t | c | m) 04:55, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- Point being that midterm election will be the benchmark compared to now. 95.203.20.51 03:26, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- Point being US federal midterm elections aren't likely to cause a shift in usage. --SHB (t | c | m) 03:15, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- Suddenly?! I don't think so either, it's either descent or ascent from here. 95.203.20.51 03:12, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- I doubt things will suddenly change in 2026 either. --SHB (t | c | m) 02:34, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
- A similar example is Erdoğan’s edict changing Turkey into Türkiye. That makes a bit more sense as it was already in use for branding and marketing including for tourism, but “Turkey” is entrenched in common English usage, and Erdoğan can’t mandate otherwise. And Turkey has no plans to start calling its neighbours by their local-language names, which (working clockwise) are Ελλάδα, България, საქართველო, Հայաստան, Azerbaycan, العراق and سوريا. Grahamsands (talk) 15:06, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
Disambiguators for Mexican destinations
[edit]It seems we have no prescribed specific policy for which convention we use for Mexican destinations (country or first-level administrative division) – which would in theory mean that the default conventions apply – use the country name.
However, a look at PetScan will tell you this is far from reality, with the practice we use seemingly using a mix of both "(Mexico)" (e.g. La Paz (Mexico), León (Mexico), Mérida (Mexico)) and the state (Durango (Durango), Loreto (Baja California), Nogales (Sonora)). Given Mexico is a federation state similar to Australia, Canada and the United States, I personally lean towards the latter but would like to hear other opinions. //shb (t | c | m) 13:24, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
- I think we could find enough examples of places with the same name in different states to justify using the state as an identifier. How do you say "Springfield" in Mexican Spanish? e.g., Loreto Baja California Sur) and Loreto (Zacatecas), Nogales (Sonora) and Nogales (Sonora) Ground Zero (talk) 14:19, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
- I agree with @Ground Zero, using the state gives us more flexibility when their are multiple occurrences of the same city name, as happens with places named after saints or places named after cities in Spain. Mrkstvns (talk) 14:32, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
- I'd rather see the biggest/most recognizable place used when that is sufficient, and smaller/less known places used when that is necessary. For example:
- "Springfield" exists in three places, but only once in each country: Use "Springfield (Mexico)", "Springfield (Guyana)", and "Springfield (Canada)".
- "Springfield" exists in three places, but all in the same country: Use "Springfield (Alaska)", "Springfield (California)", and "Springfield (New York)".
- "Springfield" exists in three places, twice in one country and once in another: Use "Springfield (Alaska)", "Springfield (California)", and "Springfield (Mexico)".
- WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:22, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- I agree. Using states for places in the US is natural for people from there, but often a well-known city can be in a state or province the name of which isn't recognised by most people from overseas. Guessing at whether the León in Guanajuato, Landes or León is the one in Spain is frustrating – not everybody can be expected to know Landes of France and to recognise that Guanajuato sounds Latin American, and I assume there are quite some worse cases. But we shouldn't need to go past country level (Venus (Earth)?). –LPfi (talk) 11:04, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- My main issue with this is it creates an inconsistency when using the search bar, especially for federation states where geographic naming is done by local naming authorities (like in the US, Australia or Canada). Should someone searching for North Sydney (Nova Scotia) start searching "North Sydney (Canada)" or "North Sydney (Nova Scotia)"? From the reader's point of view this feels like adding an extra layer of complexity even though it is probably better from a recognisability point of view. Mexico is another federation state so at the very least I lean towards using the same naming conventions as the US. //shb (t | c | m) 11:40, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- There are lots of federations, including Germany and Malaysia. Are you suggesting we adopt the same disambiguation conventions for all of them on the basis of their form of government? (And isn't Canada actually a confederation?) Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:58, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- No, because states in Mexico have far more of a say in what goes on within than states in Germany and Malaysia – I specifically say this for countries where naming conventions are done on a state level rather than a national level and in both Germany and Malaysia, they're done on a national level if I'm not mistaken. //shb (t | c | m) 23:13, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- Is that true? Even if it is, I consider it irrelevant. My opinion is that we should disambiguate by country, then by primary political division (state/province/region for Italy), then by secondary political division (county, district, province for Italy, etc.). I have never agreed with using sub-national divisions when nations are sufficient to disambiguate x-number of places with the same name. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:50, 21 June 2025 (UTC)
- No, because states in Mexico have far more of a say in what goes on within than states in Germany and Malaysia – I specifically say this for countries where naming conventions are done on a state level rather than a national level and in both Germany and Malaysia, they're done on a national level if I'm not mistaken. //shb (t | c | m) 23:13, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- On desktop, when you start typing something in the search box, you get 10 suggested results offered to you. You therefore don't need to know which convention(s) are in use. (Indeed, it would be very bad design if you couldn't find articles without knowing this).
- There's nothing wrong with creating redirects from the lower-level options (e.g., put the article at North Sydney (Canada) and a redirect at North Sydney (Nova Scotia)), but that shouldn't prevent us from having the most universally recognizable name as the primary title. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:34, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- There are lots of federations, including Germany and Malaysia. Are you suggesting we adopt the same disambiguation conventions for all of them on the basis of their form of government? (And isn't Canada actually a confederation?) Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:58, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- My main issue with this is it creates an inconsistency when using the search bar, especially for federation states where geographic naming is done by local naming authorities (like in the US, Australia or Canada). Should someone searching for North Sydney (Nova Scotia) start searching "North Sydney (Canada)" or "North Sydney (Nova Scotia)"? From the reader's point of view this feels like adding an extra layer of complexity even though it is probably better from a recognisability point of view. Mexico is another federation state so at the very least I lean towards using the same naming conventions as the US. //shb (t | c | m) 11:40, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- I agree. Using states for places in the US is natural for people from there, but often a well-known city can be in a state or province the name of which isn't recognised by most people from overseas. Guessing at whether the León in Guanajuato, Landes or León is the one in Spain is frustrating – not everybody can be expected to know Landes of France and to recognise that Guanajuato sounds Latin American, and I assume there are quite some worse cases. But we shouldn't need to go past country level (Venus (Earth)?). –LPfi (talk) 11:04, 20 June 2025 (UTC)