Talk:Niagara Falls (Ontario) Voyage Tips and guide

This article was the Collaboration of the month for February 2011-August 2011.

Contents

With respect to edits like this one, the "By taxi" section of this article (and many others on Wikivoyage) was getting spammy. Typical Wikivoyage practice is that we'll leave listings of questionable value when there are only one or two (example: fast food restaurants, taxi listings, car rental listings) but remove them with a general statement about availability if the listings become a problem. That's what I've done here - there is information in this article about taxi rates under the "By bus" section (which arguably is the wrong place) so we don't need to say much more on the matter. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 20:06, 13 May 2010 (EDT)

I wasn't aware the Maid of the Mist restaurant was a franchise. Can anyone vouch? Also, a review of chains specific to a country/region should be listed on those country/region articles, correct (such as Canada, U.S., Ontario or New York)? Therefore, a review of Tim Horton's, Wendy's, etc. could be erased. Lastly, I will attempt to categorize the Eat section according to price, but for those listings which don't indicate a price, how would one be able to categorize the listing other than reading the description (which may or may not indicate a price setting)?(WT-en) Zepppep 12:44, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

Chain restaurants shouldn't get their own listing for destinations that have a variety of restaurants - it's generally sufficient to just include a single sentence at the top of the "Eat" section stating something like "Standard chain restaurants such as Wendy's, McDonald's, ... can be found here along with more unique establishments". As to dividing by price, others may have better methods but I've always just defaulted to "Mid-range" when I couldn't figure out where a restaurant fit. As long as you include Template:Eatpricerange to indicate what the ranges are for each category then more knowledgeable contributors should be able to fix any mistakes in the future. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:52, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

Milestones Niagara Falls is a Canadian luxury chain with a fallsview location. Its chef is among other featured local pseudo-celeb chefs -- maybe the focus should be on takeout, drivethrough, and cafeteria style chain restaurants. Sometimes there are signature chain locations (like the McDonalds in Chicago). Kurtismccartney • (talk) • 10:26, 15 January 2013 (EDT)

This is an invitation to help Niagara11. She is new to the wiki world and will be cleaning up the language to remove ad phrases (touting). This is in order to add travel information about the Fallsview area on Fallsview Blvd. The new posts will be dry as a cracker. Except for this one. —The preceding comment was added by 70.54.218.226 (talk • contribs)

We don't require "dry as a cracker" language; in fact, we want lively writing. But "Start celebrating all of your life’s milestones, at Milestones Grill + Bar" is not "lively" -- it's advertising. Please see Project:Tone. (WT-en) LtPowers 19:37, 30 September 2011 (EDT)

Just a heads up - I've added a cleaner version of the Milestones NF info along with the Terrapin Grille, Located at the peak of the escarpment immediately next to Niagara Falls. I welcome anyone that wants to improve the pieces by adding context. BTW "lifes milestones" may seem like advertising, but so is putting a phone number or address next to the name. Their focus is on milestone celebrations, incl. birthdays, anniversaries, finishing chemotherapy treatment, losing a kilogram of body weight, etc. The term "Special Occasion" doesn't always work - nor is it approved brand language. Just as large hamburger doesn't cut it for McDonalds, some of these brand slogans are balanced between marketing with nouns (Milestones) and describing with adjectives (milestones). Also, please use 'I' rather than 'we' when conveying a personal opinion. —The preceding comment was added by Kurtismccartney (talk • contribs)

I was not stating a personal opinion; I was describing site policy. LtPowers (talk) 21:28, 18 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for the clarification. I was connecting your (LtPowers) statement about language (We don't require "dry as a cracker" language; in fact, we want lively writing) to the personal opinion (But "Start celebrating all of your life’s milestones, at Milestones Grill + Bar" is not "lively" -- it's advertising). Although lively is a really bad description of what it was in the first place. Copy and paste seems to be the real description of Niagara11's style. Kurtismccartney (talk) 21:43, 18 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Corrected some of the alphabetical sorting that was going wrong. (bottom additions) Added some info about local businesses. (Marriott, Mag Tours, Milestones, Terrapin) Corrected the depressing "Niagara Falls shuts down in the Winter" message, only MotM and Marineland shut down AFAIK. (Amirite?) —The preceding comment was added by Kurtismccartney (talk • contribs)

Going over the Tour companies (currently under Get In) and many of these listings are more "Do" types of events. I'd prefer to move them to DO. The one complication remains the set of tour companies from Toronto which kinda count as a Get In, although its more of a GetIn-GetOut for residents of Toronto - which is still DO. Thoughts? Kurtismccartney (talk) 01:11, 19 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I'd left the tours in there until I had a chance to clean them out, but I never got around to it. Per our policy, tours shouldn't be listed unless they offer some sort of added value, something that travelers wouldn't be able to do on their own. LtPowers (talk) 02:17, 19 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I have removed the Maid of the Mist from the 'See' section. This article is about Niagara Falls, Ontario, and the listing was for the New York cruises only. Since Hornblower now operates the Canadian boat trips, and Maid of the Mist no longer operates in Ontario, there is no reason for the listing on this page. 209.90.140.72 23:23, 19 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

The .com domain is for sale and the telephone rings unanswered (noon edt). Is this place open or closed? I'll try one more 'phone call in the evening, then remove this if there's still no answer. K7L (talk) 16:40, 31 March 2016 (UTC)Reply

K7L - As luck would have it, I'm going to be heading to the Falls this weekend. If you don't mind holding off for two or three days, I can check this out for myself. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:30, 31 March 2016 (UTC)Reply

Still ringing no answer; thanks, I'll wait until you return. K7L (talk) 00:41, 1 April 2016 (UTC)Reply

K7L - I just arrived back home from Niagara Falls. Results on this are decidedly inconclusive. The building at the listed address appears to be an ordinary home on a residential side street, certainly occupied, but with no signage or anything else to indicate that it's in use as a guesthouse. This being Niagara Falls, I suppose it can't be ruled out that this is a seasonal business that closes during the winter. Do what you think is best, I suppose. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:29, 2 April 2016 (UTC)Reply

It rings five times with no answer, then gives a personal voicemail "(male voice) please leave a message". The number does not answer as (or identify itself as) a commercial business and the .com domain is cybersquatted. I'll presumed closed as it makes no sense to send a voyager to an establishment which is unreachable or not open. K7L (talk) 21:45, 2 April 2016 (UTC)Reply

Don't most of these listings violate Wikivoyage:Tour? Wine tastings are fine, as are helicopter tours, but anyone can easily visit the falls on their own, so does anyone have a good argument for not deleting tours of the falls? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:33, 12 July 2016 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, I didn't check the talk page before removing the section. I don't know why it even existed, especially in "Get in". Powers ^(talk) 19:03, 12 July 2016 (UTC)Reply

Let me know if this edit summary isn't clear. Powers ^(talk) 15:10, 23 September 2016 (UTC)Reply

Your edit summary was clear, but the directions themselves weren't quite as clear as they might have been. See the edit summary of the subsequent edit. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:25, 23 September 2016 (UTC)Reply

The following box appeared in the article's Buy section:

Note: Hotels and restaurants have been adding unexplained and poorly-documented fees, some as high as 10%, to fund destination marketing programs. Acronyms on bills include DMF, DMP, DMDF, PF and TIF. The charges, which vary widely, are not mandatory and lawfully cannot be identified as a tax.[1][2]. Consumers who believe they're being misled may call the Ontario government's consumer services ministry at +1-800-889-9768.

Here is an answer via email from Niagara Falls Tourism (as of Dec. 2, 2019):

With regard to compulsory fees that are charged on accommodation, you can expect:

HST of 13% charged as required on goods and services

Municipal Accommodation Tax of $2 (+HST) per night

As independent businesses, the operators may also levy a Mandatory Charge or Resort Fee. These fees vary from property to property but are clearly outlined at the time of booking. You may also see similar fees at restaurants; however, if they do apply, they are clearly listed on the menu so that consumers are aware.

Niagara Falls Tourism offers information on accommodation, dining and attractions that can be accessed at https://www.niagarafallstourism.com/sleep/ . There are links to individual businesses where prices and related fees are listed.

The info box was replaced by more appropriate messages in Eat and Sleep. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 23:02, 2 December 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Ground Zero: The entry for Niagara Falls (Ontario)#Marineland Theme Park says as part of the description: "The park was the subject of protests due to extensive Toronto Star coverage in 2012 where former employees documented poor conditions in which animals were held." The cause may be noble, but it seems inappropriate for a WikiVoyage article. Should the statement be removed? TheTrolleyPole (talk) 14:42, 3 December 2019 (UTC)Reply

I wasn't tagged here, but this was fairly big news in Buffalo as well at the time it went on, so I feel I can weigh in with some degree of authority. My position, frankly, is that if Wikivoyage were to add analogous warnings to every zoo, theme park, restaurant chain, etc. etc. etc. that's ever been protested by animal rights extremists over unproven hearsay and speculation, we'd have our work cut out for us. Granted, in not all of those cases did a major national newspaper get into the act, but the fact remains that (unless I seriously missed something) no conclusive proof of the allegations against Marineland was ever unearthed. Plus, this all happened seven years ago and it's been quiet on that front since then. I'd say let's excise. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:15, 3 December 2019 (UTC)Reply

I don't agree that all has been quiet. Protests continue. See the Wikipedia article. Former staff have come forward as recently as 2016 to blow the whistle on the conditions for the animals. Just as we advise readers of conditions for the animals on elephant treks and let them make up their own minds, I think it is fair to let readers know that there are concerns about the conditions at Marineland and let them decide. We should not tell them not to go, but just give them information. I propose we update the text to:

"Animal rights campaigners continue to criticize the park because of the poor conditions in which animals are held as has been documented by former employees."

Ground Zero (talk) 18:09, 3 December 2019 (UTC)Reply

Normally I'm of the opinion that where there's smoke, there's fire. But in a case where rumors linger for seven or more years without ever being substantiated, and indeed in a case where repeated government inspections as well as several courtroom trials have never turned up anything untoward (as the Wikipedia article points out), I think a bit of skepticism is in order. If we must address this issue, something like "Animal rights campaigners continue to criticize the park due to allegations by former employees of poor living conditions for the animals" is better. But I continue to think that, much like the idea of "teaching the controversy" of intelligent design vs. evolution in U.S. public schools, the mere act of "advis[ing] readers" of both sides of the story and "let[ting] them make up their own minds", as well-meaning as it may be, actually serves to obfuscate the issue by implying that both sides ought to be given equal credence, when in fact the aggregate of hard evidence speaks pretty unanimously against one of them. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:22, 3 December 2019 (UTC)Reply

I don't agree that this is comparable to the hard science vs. something a bunch of guys wrote down thousands of years ago analogy. The 2016 NF Review article I linked convinces me that Marineland is an abusive situation, but I have to admit that they haven't been convicted of anything yet, so I guess I have to agree to remove the warning until Marineland is caught with more evidence, as I expect will happen. Ground Zero (talk) 20:29, 3 December 2019 (UTC)Reply

As a practical matter, the enwiki article says that there are sometimes activists protesting on site, and that is something that some (perhaps only a few? It'd kind of depend upon the scale of the protests) travelers might want to know about.

Ground Zero, I'm skeptical about the hidden-camera thing in the NF article. The activists presented five minutes worth of footage. It took them five months to collect it. What happened in all the other hours and hours and hours and hours? They apparently want you to believe that the few seconds shown is how things always are. So the calf has been separated, but do you know whether that's typical, or if there was some special circumstance, or if it was temporary? That feels rather like someone saying "Hey, those horrible people isolated the calf from the adults!" followed by "Hey, those horrible people aren't providing adequate veterinary care, which, by the way, requires isolating it from the adults briefly!" WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:24, 3 December 2019 (UTC)Reply

There seems to be consensus to delete; so, I deleted the message. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 19:03, 4 December 2019 (UTC)Reply

Another incident. Ground Zero (talk) 00:15, 7 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Marineland has been convicted of three counts of animal cruelty. The facts are egregious. Marineland was told to improve conditions, and did nothing. As a traveller, I choose not visit animal-based attractions that involve cruely to animals. I think that readers should be given that information so they can make their own decision. I have added some text, and updated the listing. Ground Zero (talk) 18:38, 8 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you. That sounds very disappointing and saddening to hear (it does make me question whether we should just remove it per Wikivoyage:Avoid negative reviews). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 19:53, 8 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

I had thought of that, too, but given the discussion above, I did not feel comfortable doing so. It remains a popular destination, although I hope that these convictions force a change in how they treat animals. A better level of care is set by the Cochrane Polar Bear Habitat, which cares for three bears, one of which was born in Gold Coast, Australia. What is wrong with people that polar bears being born in Gold Coast? Ground Zero (talk) 22:52, 8 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sea World doesn't have the best reputation in a lot of aspects, but otherwise agreed. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

I deleted the following statement from the article:

• On your honeymoon? You can get an Official City of Niagara Falls Honeymoon Certificate from the Niagara Falls Tourism Office at 5400 Robinson St.

Info Niagara rather than the Niagara Falls Tourism Office is at 5400 Robinson Street. Info Niagara (apparently a tourist booking service) has a webpage saying that the "Official Niagara Falls Marriage Certificate" is available at Niagara Falls Tourism. A webpage on the Niagara Falls Tourism site says the "Niagara Falls Honeymoon (and Anniversary) Certificate" is available from the the Niagara Falls Ontario Tourism Information Centre located at 5355 Stanley Avenue. I don't feel confident about this information which was hard to find on the internet. I will try to contact the Niagara Falls Ontario Tourism Information Centre to confirm or deny. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 19:34, 4 December 2019 (UTC)Reply

See Talk:Niagara Falls for reconsideration of banners. /Yvwv (talk) 11:31, 5 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Title. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

1, 2, 0 for me, but they're all good and this one doesn't really need to be replaced. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:52, 19 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Maid of the Mist - pot-o-gold.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)Reply