Talk:Prague Voyage Tips and guide

Contents

Per Jjtkk's comment here (BTW if you have map drawing skills do check out that thread as well!) I hereby start up a discussion to reduce the number of districts. As of now there are 10 districts. I suggest a merge of some districts so that we end up with something like this:

• Old Town + Jewish Town= "Old Town and Josefov"?
• New Town: let it be as it is
• Castle + Lesser Town + Vysehrad = "West Bank" or something like that?

The outer districts named after the cardinal directions could perhaps be kept as they are.

I suspect that Danapit and likely also Prince and Jjtkk (him?)self know the city better. So their comments are more than welcome here.ϒpsilon (talk) 19:47, 21 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ypsi, thanks for thinking of me here. I am afraid the last time I had a Prag'out (or P'ragout) was in the 1990s and I don't really know the city all that well. I guess what would have helped as usual were mock articles with POIs and MapFrames so that we could see how that pans out. I do not feel like creating any of those since I don't know the city that well, do forgive me :( PrinceGloria (talk) 08:45, 22 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I know the centre and support merging shown above, except Vysehrad should be merged with New Town (it's actually on the east bank, just south from New Town). I don't know Prague outskirts but still think that there's no need for 4 outer districts, South (pretty empty article) can be merged with East and maybe North with West but that can be decided after mockup. Jjtkk (talk) 16:00, 22 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

You're right, Vysehrad is east of Vltava. I probably mixed it up with the castle as it ends with Hrad. So let's call the districts "Castle & Lesser town", and "New town & Vysehrad". Or why not use the Czech names, these are what you are going to encounter in Prague and they sound more exciting.

I'm fine with combining peripheral districts. Let's make just one Suburban Prague article, it gets illogical otherwise (BTW I haven't been outside the touristic parts of the city either). ϒpsilon (talk) 16:44, 22 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

ϒpsilon, I've lived in Praha during my student years, but this is already more than 10 years ago. However, the city layout probably didn't change since ;) Not sure about the plan of combining all peripheral parts into one lump, but N+W doesn't work either, because due to the Vltava river, these parts are very poorly connected from the transportation point of view. New Town + Vysehrad makes sense. Danapit (talk) 18:23, 22 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

One article for all suburbs in not enough, maybe East and West divided by Vltava? East would have more listings (Zizkov, Vinohrady and partly Karlin are full of bars and hotels) but there would be some stuff in West too. Jjtkk (talk) 20:51, 22 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

That might work, I guess. Danapit (talk) 19:26, 23 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

This is a fast sketch of how it would look like. Outskirts of Prague are huge! Jjtkk (talk) 17:47, 24 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes, they are huge, as is often the case. In Milan the outer regions reached half the way to Switzerland so this was a solution me and Prince thought up so that one wouldn't need a microscope for the central districts. How about focusing just on the central districts and let the suburbs "continue beyond the map" here as well? ϒpsilon (talk) 18:12, 24 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Two remarks from my side:

• Vysehrad merits its own article, which is already quite long and detailed in the Russian version
• Suburbs should be left as they are. A single district for "Outer Prague" will not work for transport reasons. Moreover, suburbs should not be considered as "leftovers". Districts like Smichov are quite interesting on their own, although it is not "Prague as tourists see it". I believe that our ultimate goal is to highlight such places rather than hide them.

Regarding the map, it definitely needs two different scales: an overview map and a magnified map of the city center shown as inset. Check this example. --Alexander (talk) 03:13, 25 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

We don't propose a single district for "Outer Prague", but two now: east and west of Vltava. I don't want to leave too many districts because what I hate as a user of WV is when I check out a city I want to visit and there's seven or eight different district articles and most of them are empty. This happened to me with Prague a year ago so I feel strongly ;) Vysegrad may merit it's own article so when someone writes more than 5 sentences about it we can split it again. Jjtkk (talk) 07:26, 25 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I don't think it is the right strategy. If most of the articles are empty, it simply means that they need more information. The idea is to devise reasonable district articles before they are replete with listings. For example, if you remove the Vysegrad article, nobody will know that we already have a decent article in Russian. --Alexander (talk) 18:48, 25 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

What difference for an English speaking traveller does decent Russian article make? We have two different ideas of how cities should get districtified, one is creating small number of district articles and dividing them further when/if they fill up and become overly long, another creating is a larger number and waiting for them to fill up. I think others should weigh in as these approaches are fundamentally different. Jjtkk (talk) 20:48, 25 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Creating extra districts only when the article being split fills up is the way to go. Creating districts just so is not. Anybody feels like preparing mock-ups/previews so that we could discuss some substance? PrinceGloria (talk) 21:11, 25 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

It makes a difference for those who look for relevant information regardless of the language. Vysehrad is an important part of Prague, and it should be highlighted. --Alexander (talk) 07:00, 26 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I also agree having smaller amount of districts with greater information density is better. Regarding Vysehrad, why don't we call the article New Town and Vysehrad and connect it in the language links to Russian Vysehrad article? Danapit (talk) 08:38, 26 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Because there is another Russian article about the New Town. --Alexander (talk) 09:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

How about keeping Vysehrad if Alexander or someone else proficient in Russian would translate content from there? ϒpsilon (talk) 10:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

That sounds like a good solution. Danapit (talk) 21:28, 27 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

JJ? ϒpsilon (talk) 12:55, 4 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Sorry. Sure, I'll wait with the map some time and see if Vysehrad article develops. Jjtkk (talk) 17:10, 4 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

You don't have to wait for me, because I won't translate anything in any foreseeable future (the work on Moscow districts is more than enough for the time being). My point is that the information is already there, and for putting it into the article you have to know English, not Russian. Any automatic translator will do the job --Alexander (talk) 19:38, 4 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Have made the update. The district text could probably do with some improvement. --Traveler100 (talk) 10:39, 13 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

After adding coordinates to listings it is clear a number of hotels and restaurants where placed in New Town and Vysehrad which should be Old Town or East. --Traveler100 (talk) 14:57, 13 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

I started working on discussed above East and West suburb articles. Your help and comments are more than welcome there. I thought we could work on some kind of unification of listings for Prague, as mentioned in the main article district system is crazy and I have some doubts on how to proceed:

• Should we include in every listing the name of the neighbourhood (Zizkov etc.) - it's informative but would look repetitive so I wouldn't do it
• Should we include in every listing the number of the district (Prague 3 or possibly Praha 3) - here I'd say yes
• If we decide to include any of those, should it go to address field or directions field? I'd say address and leave directions for public transportation etc.

Jjtkk (talk) 12:43, 5 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Actually, I think it would be great if we could use both district number and neighborhood (example: Praha 6, Dejvice), and preferably in address field. --Danapit (talk) 11:08, 7 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Please do this work on the actual page otherwise people will be redoing work you have already done. --Traveler100 (talk) 09:21, 12 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

I don't think there is any significant opposition to the districtification of Prague as proposed above. I'd deploy it now to prevent what Traveler100 pointed at above. PrinceGloria (talk) 09:48, 12 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Currently planing visit to the city and finding the current districts splits annoying. So unless objections will do the merge of Old Town + Jewish Town and Castle + Lesser Town. --Traveler100 (talk) 10:02, 12 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hey guys, I don't have time to work on VW these days :( Those articles linked above were pretty up-to-date in March (closed listings removed, coordinates added etc.) but Understand and Get in sections were copied from existing articles so they don't match the new split. Jjtkk (talk) 13:04, 12 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Have made the change, could do with some additional checking from others. --Traveler100 (talk) 10:38, 13 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Do we need the Talk section in this article? It is currently placed between Eat and Drink sections. Our city template doesn't normally have it and there's nothing there that is not covered in Czech Republic Talk section. Jjtkk (talk) 10:47, 16 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree, this can safely be done away with entirely in this article. PrinceGloria (talk) 20:44, 16 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm not really sure what http://cryptex.cz/ is, but it smacks of a startup promotional activity rather than an activity for travelers. Should we remove it?

https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Prague&diff=2740902&oldid=2731322

Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:44, 6 March 2015 (UTC)Reply

It should be detouted, but it looks legitimate to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:51, 6 March 2015 (UTC)Reply

It seems legitimate, but not really a travel related activity as such. It fell into a grey area for me, so thanks for de-touting. Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)Reply

Certainly. It's not travel-related as such, no, but if it's something a bit unusual, it may be fun for some people while they're in Prague. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:55, 6 March 2015 (UTC)Reply

Hello, I live in Prague my whole life and I'm not satisfied with division of Prague outside the city centre. I think these two areas (West and East bank of Vltava River) are too big and for traveller may be confusing.

Ideal division, in my opinion, would be:

• West bank of Vltava (without Holesovice/Prague 7)
• Northeastern bank of Vltava (including Holesovice/Prague 7 Peninsula)
• Southeastern bak of Vltava

These three divisions are more compact (for example shares same metro lines).

So what do you think? —The preceding comment was added by Prazak123 (talk • contribs)

I have yet to visit Prague, but my question would be whether there are enough attractions, restaurants, et al. to make reasonable-sized articles for these 3 districts you propose. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)Reply

I'm pretty sure that yes, there are some attractions in these areas (I think enough in every of those three) and hundreds of restaurants and hotels. Biggest advantage of ares out of historic centre is cheap accomodation and I think Wikivoyage should provide more information about these places. Problem is, that (although both Wets bank and East bank are marked as usable) these articles are not covering all important quarters of Prague. For example, East bank article is mostly just about two quarters, Zizkov (Prague 3) and Troja. For example: about Vrsovice, Karlin, Nusle or Liben there is just few or no information. These articles are in my opinion confusing and not well organized, especially the bigger East bank area. --Prazak123 (talk) 03:55, 26 October 2015 (UTC)Reply

Then you have my blessing, but please wait and see what others who know Prague say. Danapit and PrinceGloria, any opinions? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:12, 26 October 2015 (UTC)Reply

As you can see, the latest distrification was completed in the spring of this year and I think it was a huge improvement. As far as I remember, much of the work was done by Jjtkk and ϒpsilon, and PrinceGloria, Alexander and Traveler100 contributed to the discussion.

For me the current districts make sense and I don't find it confusing for the traveller. The change you are proposing is moving Holešovice and Bubeneč to the distric across the river and dividing this big eastern lump in two halves. While in princliple, this sounds fine with me, I am not a huge fan of overdistrifying relatively compact cities, this is what I find personally confusing in a role of a traveller. So for the time being I would mildly prefer to keep existing division and once there are more listings, we could approach further division. Danapit (talk) 08:14, 26 October 2015 (UTC)Reply

I have not been to Prague for some time now and have no strong feelings nor detaile knowledge. That said, I am not a fan of overdistrictifying either - we first need CONTENT to fill in articles, and then if it starts overflowing, to divide it between more districts. I am a big fan of "bagel" outside districts if there is not enough content to split them in each direction, rather than half-empty tangential outside districts that contain one or two POIs one may want to take a bus or metro to see. Please note that this is my expression of preference, since I've been called out, not an assessment of the current or proposed division, as with regard to Prague I am none the wiser. PrinceGloria (talk) 08:32, 26 October 2015 (UTC)Reply

I would be tempted to make the areas close to the old town, Karlin,Zitkov,Vrsovice, Vinohrady as one district and Holesovice as another district, and then keep the east and west pages. Would however only do this if there is enough text in the introduction to these districts and enough listing added to mak eit worthwhile being separate article. Remember visitors to a city are generally not aware of neighborhood names outside of the central tourist areas so simple geographical position and concentration of attractions is more useful. Content must come first. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:02, 26 October 2015 (UTC)Reply

(edit conflict) I'm not really familiar with the parts of Prague outside the historical centre. As such, I'm not entirely opposed to adding one more district to Prague, on the other hand it would surely be good to have as much content in those two articles (southeast & northeast) each as there is now in Prague/East bank of Vltava. The old district division consisted of ten districts, half of them being practically empty and this is something probably nobody would like to have back.

But I'm not entirely sure about adding the peninsula to the northeastern district; isn't the river a good and clear border between districts for someone who doesn't know the city well? ϒpsilon (talk) 12:05, 26 October 2015 (UTC)Reply

To sum up, it looks like there is not a huge opposition against dividing the eastern district into two, as Prazak123 suggests, but content should come first. When this is the case, some minor tweeks as to where exactly to put the borders of new disctricts can be discussed. Danapit (talk) 15:03, 18 November 2015 (UTC)Reply

Below is the list with all Wikidata items for the districts of Prague. This should simplify the work in case we want to change the district set-up in the future.

50°3′26″N 14°27′59″E

Ditricts of Prague. Static district map.

I suggest removing current Do -> Culture venues with something more traditional and probably more expected by a traveler, such as National Theater, Opera, Ballet and main modern music venues. Current venues are not really known in Prague. I can do this, but I am not that sure if it is the right move.. Some opinions would be nice. Heisy Bordel (talk) 15:53, 8 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Can I add Respect section? I know it is not part of City template, but I believe a lot of stuff could be written, stuff which does not really apply to Czech Republic as a whole (or is not important enough to mention there). Tourists not really respecting locals are a public topic in Prague, but it seems to me there is not enough information for tourists on how to respect locals. I can also mention this in Sleep, Drink and Cope parts, but I believe Respect would look better. What do you think? Heisy Bordel (talk) 16:09, 15 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

I think this would be a good idea. Please plunge forward.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:17, 15 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

I think adding a respect section is a good idea. Is there anything non-obvious? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:24, 15 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

I added it. Maybe it is a bit too obvious, I don't know. It is however a common problem here in Prague, and I wanted to spread the word a bit, because some people seem not to get it really. Heisy Bordel (talk) 19:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

(Drunk) tourists disturbing the peace in different ways is sadly a common problem in many Mediterranean countries and "new EU countries". In some places in Spain it has gone so far that the locals don't want any tourists there any longer. :( ϒpsilon (talk) 19:34, 15 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Respect is an optional section for cities. It sounds like there's content you want to put in it, so by all means add it. We can always reconsider if the content all turns out to be blindingly obvious, but I think you should be given some latitude. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:29, 15 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Swept in from the pub

Hello, just a small question. I am dividing Lists in this article workplace by districts. The districts do not constitute for an article on their own, but the area is large so this partition seems the most useful to me. Is the kind of partition acceptable? Heisy Bordel (talk, contributions) 14:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

Not a problem at all. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:36, 20 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

The districts section says:

For purposes of this guide, the "old" district system is used. In this "old" system, Prague is divided into ten numbered districts (Praha 1 through to Praha 10). If you encounter a higher district number, a different system is being used.

But the "East bank of Vltava" description says:

It consists of the numbered districts of Praha 3, Praha 4, Praha 8, Praha 9, Praha 10, Praha 11 and Praha 12.

Evidently it's not using the "old" district system. One of these quoted passages needs to be corrected—either the first part should specify which district system the guide actually uses, or the second part should be adjusted to follow the "old" system. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:58, 27 April 2020 (UTC)Reply

Resolved (see summary). Twsabin (talk) 00:10, 19 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Grand old hotels#Central Europe lists four hotels in Prague, two of which I cannot find here:

• Hotel Paris
• Grand Hotel Bohemia

I assume also those should be listed. Where are they? –LPfi (talk) 17:39, 26 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

I have added the Hotel Paris to Prague/Old Town and Josefov. I had lunch there in 1990 when it was recommended as a cheap run-down grand old hotel, but it will have changed greatly. The Grand Hotel Bohemia is in the next block (to the west). AlasdairW (talk) 22:41, 27 January 2023 (UTC)Reply