East Frisia and Turkey
[edit]
- Please add that info if you haven't already. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:22, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- I know next to nothing about their respective tea cultures and don't want to misrepresent them... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:39, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- You know that they are among the places with the highest per capita tea consumption, so you can start there. I am not an expert on all the countries I covered in my initial edits to start this article. I correctly assumed that others would edit my contributions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:41, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- Well I have learned by now that they usually drink Assam-tea and consume roughly 300 liters a year per capita - which makes it twelve times the German average and at the top of world consumption. It also equals just under one liter per day. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:56, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Potential banners
[edit]I placed a banner on the main page, but also quickly came up with the following:
It was actually more challenging to find a banner picture than I thought... there were plenty of source images, but not so many that work at 7:1 --Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:22, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- I prefer the existing version, and between the other two, Option 3. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- I think the existing one is nicest. Option 1 is the next-best composition, in my opinion. Thanks for putting in a good banner! Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Milk in herbal tea?
[edit]It is stated that "in Great Britain, it is very common to add milk to almost any type of tea or herbal tea".
I'm not a big tea drinker myself, but I was sure that herbal tea was never mixed with milk, even by British heathens :) ThunderingTyphoons! to comment perhaps? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:56, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- I would never put milk in herbal tea. The very idea! Though I recommend you don't make me sole spokesperson for the heathens. Who else we got? Nick? :) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:49, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- Isn't there a huge debate as to whether milk or tea is to be put into the cup first? Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:00, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- OK, maybe I misunderstood just how prevalent adding milk is, but rooibus tea is herbal and lacks tea leaves. Is it really unusual to add milk to it in Britain? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:22, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- Interesting, w:Rooibos is indeed a herbal tea (I didn't know that) and served with milk in South Africa. I know that most herbal teas have a delicate flavor, so adding milk would generally overpower them.
- I would also say that Britons typically drink strong black tea (that goes well with milk), so drinking herbal tea tends to be the exception anyway. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- I'm in agreement with Andrewssi2 and ThunderingTyphoons! - no milk with herbal tea, but I don't drink that very much anyway. --Nick talk 10:30, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- Herbal tea in Turkey is thought of as medicine - definitely no milk -- Regular tea is usually a black tea often served with cubes of sugar (no milk) -- a variation I often had is a cinnamon black tea with cubes of sugar (no milk)... pop a cube of sugar and sip away -- enjoy - Matroc (talk) 01:47, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Resources
[edit]This site looks like a good resource, despite its quirks (Africa as a single country?). I think Kenya should be mentioned as a tea-growing country, and it looks like Taiwan is a big omission from our article, so far. If you come across other useful (preferably better) information sources, please post the links here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:31, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
- Some other ones: About Food Tea Production Regions (pretty detailed, but with an autoplaying video), RateTea.com Tea Producing Regions (also covers herbal tea; each country name must be clicked separately for information). Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:36, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
- More narrowly-focused site but still of some use. It would be good to mention white teas. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:40, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Status
[edit]This article still sits at outline. Should it be upgraded? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:31, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
- Maybe some See and Do listings could improve it in this direction...? Ibaman (talk) 16:33, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Tea plantations or farms?
[edit]The phrase "tea plantations" has been changed to "tea farms." Why? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I changed it reflexively, because the word "plantation" in the US has connotations regarding colonization and slavery. For example, Charleston Tea Garden (linked in this article) deliberately rebranded themselves a few years ago for that reason: https://charlestonteagarden.com/pages/history
- I'm okay with changing it back if the word is less loaded in other regions. I'm guessing its the most common term in South Asia, though I don't think East Asia uses either "farm" or "plantation" consistently. Gerode (talk) 05:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Also, "plantation" implies a large operation, where "farm" is more scale-agnostic and applies equally well to small family plots of land. Gerode (talk) 05:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- First, this article is not about the U.S. Second, "plantation" in the context of tea does not and I think generally never did mean slave labor is or was used (though I wouldn't put it past Chinese emperors to have used slave labor in cultivation thousands of years ago). I haven't heard "farm" being used for tea. Let's wait for a few more opinions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:09, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm with Ikan on this. The US is not where most tea plantations are and we shouldn't be putting too much weight into what the US uses over what the majority of tea-producing countries use (tea plantations). --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 06:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with all this in the context of South Asia, where "plantation" (and whatever connotations it may have) is the most precise term for my understanding of how tea was and is typically produced there. If it's not clear from my edit history, I'm less of a South Asian tea drinker 😛
- I'm less convinced that "plantation" is the most accurate term for China, Japan, and East Asia. While there are large-scale operations, many of the growing regions (or at least some famous tourist-facing ones) feature small fields tended by their owners. Poking around other Wiki sites for a few minutes, "plantation" is still clearly preferred by articles referencing Japanese tea. It's less consistently used for articles referencing Chinese tea, but it's still in the mix.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tea
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_culture_in_Japan
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tea_in_Japan
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_tea
- My remaining hesitation is about how small and owner-operated I think a "plantation" can be, and whether the small operations are prevalent enough to need a broader term, but at that point I realize I'm splitting hairs. "Plantation" is clearly what the rest of the world is going with. Gerode (talk) 07:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Any further thoughts? Do we need to have more opinions here? I'm not sure 2-1 is a consensus. I'll post to the Travellers' pub. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:08, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- I looked through the five Chinese and Japanese destinations linked in the article to see if there were farms or plantations that could be visited to determine which word is used, and checked Wikipedia articles when I came up with nothing, and found very little that could guide us in this. Not being from the U.S., I don't have the visceral reaction to the word "plantation", and it is actually the first word that comes to mind when I think of tea cultivation. Ground Zero (talk) 01:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- According to English Wikipedia, a plantation is a specific sort of farm - "Plantations are farms specializing in cash crops, usually mainly planting a single crop, ...". I know that as child in South Africa, our teachers refered to Wattle plantations in the Natal Midlands. THe word "plantation" was also used in connection with forestry, but not in connection with viticulture or maize. A vinyard usually grew and fermented the grapes while maize farmers often kept cattle as well. Martinvl (talk) 15:22, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- I looked through the five Chinese and Japanese destinations linked in the article to see if there were farms or plantations that could be visited to determine which word is used, and checked Wikipedia articles when I came up with nothing, and found very little that could guide us in this. Not being from the U.S., I don't have the visceral reaction to the word "plantation", and it is actually the first word that comes to mind when I think of tea cultivation. Ground Zero (talk) 01:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Any further thoughts? Do we need to have more opinions here? I'm not sure 2-1 is a consensus. I'll post to the Travellers' pub. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:08, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- About the US understanding: The question isn't whether these are American-style slave plantations. The question is whether you want our many US readers to think about those American-style slave plantations. There is very little understanding in the US that there could be a technical definition of plantation that does not involve chattel slavery as a primary feature. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:01, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- My counter-argument is that ignorance on the part of some American readers might not be the best way to determine what word we use in this article. There are many plantations around the world that grow different types of crops, and the workers who pick the tea leaves, tap rubber, pick sugar cane, etc., are and should be paid for their labor!! I'm an American, and if an article stated that there are sugar plantations in a country today, in no way would I assume that there were enslaved workers at those plantations today. That's sort of like Americans being unaware of the U.S. Civil War and thinking that all plantations in the U.S. today have enslaved workers working them. But there are a lot of things loads and loads of Americans are ignorant about... Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- I agree fully; the ignorance of some people shouldn't guide us in this very specific context which has very little to do with the US. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 19:57, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- "Tea plantation" is the usual term, so that's what we should stick with. If the English language changes in the future, we can revisit it then. I don't instinctively think of slave labour when the word "plantation" is used. I would presume that the workers are paid for their labour unless there's a reason to believe otherwise. The dog2 (talk) 23:06, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- This looks like a consensus. The usage of "plantation" was quietly restored in the article. I agree that we can revisit this question any time English usage changes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I chewed on my US-centric "ick" response for a day, felt satisfied with the information presented, and changed it back without any qualms! Gerode (talk) 05:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:02, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I chewed on my US-centric "ick" response for a day, felt satisfied with the information presented, and changed it back without any qualms! Gerode (talk) 05:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- This looks like a consensus. The usage of "plantation" was quietly restored in the article. I agree that we can revisit this question any time English usage changes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- "Tea plantation" is the usual term, so that's what we should stick with. If the English language changes in the future, we can revisit it then. I don't instinctively think of slave labour when the word "plantation" is used. I would presume that the workers are paid for their labour unless there's a reason to believe otherwise. The dog2 (talk) 23:06, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree fully; the ignorance of some people shouldn't guide us in this very specific context which has very little to do with the US. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 19:57, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- My counter-argument is that ignorance on the part of some American readers might not be the best way to determine what word we use in this article. There are many plantations around the world that grow different types of crops, and the workers who pick the tea leaves, tap rubber, pick sugar cane, etc., are and should be paid for their labor!! I'm an American, and if an article stated that there are sugar plantations in a country today, in no way would I assume that there were enslaved workers at those plantations today. That's sort of like Americans being unaware of the U.S. Civil War and thinking that all plantations in the U.S. today have enslaved workers working them. But there are a lot of things loads and loads of Americans are ignorant about... Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm with Ikan on this. The US is not where most tea plantations are and we shouldn't be putting too much weight into what the US uses over what the majority of tea-producing countries use (tea plantations). --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 06:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- First, this article is not about the U.S. Second, "plantation" in the context of tea does not and I think generally never did mean slave labor is or was used (though I wouldn't put it past Chinese emperors to have used slave labor in cultivation thousands of years ago). I haven't heard "farm" being used for tea. Let's wait for a few more opinions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:09, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Also, "plantation" implies a large operation, where "farm" is more scale-agnostic and applies equally well to small family plots of land. Gerode (talk) 05:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC)