User talk:RolandUnger Voyage Tips and guide

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Hello Roland!

I see you have been with Wikivoyage a long time, doing most of your work on the German Language version. But we have not welcomed you in English. Just for the record, Welcome to the English version of Wikivoyage. Please take a sec to look at our copyleft and policies and guidelines, but feel free to plunge forward and edit some pages. Scanning the Manual of style, especially the article templates, can give you a good idea of how we like articles formatted. If you need help, check out Project:Help, and if you need some info not on there, post a message in the travellers' pub. -- (WT-en) Huttite 21:13, 17 Dec 2005 (EST)

Thanks for your greetings. --RolandUnger (talk) 09:59, 18 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi,

I noticed you added links to Earth to the continent articles. However, Earth is just a joke article, so I've reverted that. Perhaps we want to work on making a true top level article in the near future? --Inas (talk) 06:58, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

A true top level article would be fine and useful. Making joke articles on earth and sol is a little bit strange. --Unger (talk) 16:25, 18 September 2012 (CEST)

• NewUserMessage

• Replace Text

Hi Unger. Hope you don't mind, but I striked the NewUserMessage extension above as we have not got consensus to have that installed at this point. But please go ahead and install Replace Text if you can. Thanks! JamesA ^>talk 03:54, 2 October 2012 (CEST)

• Installed. I hope it's working. --Unger (talk) 16:04, 13 October 2012 (CEST)
  • It works great, Unger, but the PHP setting "max_input_vars" is set such that I can't change more than about 500 articles with one command. If that could be upped significantly (about a factor of 10, ideally), that would be a big help; this change can be temporary if necessary. LtPowers (talk) 20:24, 14 October 2012 (CEST)
    • I will look for it. By the way, we did similar changes with a bot, please ask Hansm for this. --Unger (talk) 21:00, 14 October 2012 (CEST)

• Extension:ConfirmEdit Need to install this extension as well in order to prevent the increasing number of spam-bots from creating the articles. --Saqib (talk) 11:30, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

I believe we previously agreed only to use CAPTCHA for new account creations, and not for anonymous contributions. I'm not sure where that discussion took place though.--Globe-trotter (talk) 12:13, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

• Installed. --Unger (talk) 15:27, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

• Extension:PdfHandler. This extension will allow readers to download the copy of article as PDF file. Very useful. --Saqib (talk) 15:24, 13 October 2012 (CEST)
  • Installed. But the aim of this extension is to show uploaded pdf files in a multipage preview layout. Maybe you think about Extension:Collection. --Unger (talk) 16:04, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

Ops. Yes you're right. Sorry for the mistake. You've installed wrong extension. --Saqib (talk) 16:07, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

• Installed for test. --Unger (talk) 18:12, 15 October 2012 (CEST)

Its working. Thanks. --Saqib (talk) 18:27, 15 October 2012 (CEST)

• Extension:TitleKey
  • Should be done at the migration to WMF because it needs database changes. --Unger (talk) 09:10, 16 October 2012 (CEST)

Are you able to fix www.wikivoyage-old.org/it so that it uses images from www.wikivoyage-old.org/shared instead of www.wikivoyage.org/shared? --Stefan2 (talk) 18:05, 11 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

I changed it, an I hope that I did not made any mistakes. --Unger (talk) 18:34, 11 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Hi Roland. Hope you're well. Could you please give User:RomaineBot the bot flag? It is about to do a large task that will clog the Recent Changes with about 250 edits, so it'd be better if users could still patrol it with the bot edits hidden. Thanks, JamesA ^>talk 09:56, 13 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Done. --RolandUnger (talk) 10:04, 13 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Danke! JamesA ^>talk 10:06, 13 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Thanks! Romaine (talk) 10:10, 13 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

PS: Today I accidental came on the page Wikivoyage:Script policy which is outdated and in conflict with how my bot (AutoWikiBrowser (AWB)) works. For that purpose I wrote here: Wikivoyage:Travellers'_pub#Script_policy. I trust both your opinion and will use my bot as requested. If there is any problem, please write on my talk page. Greetings - Romaine (talk) 16:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Hey Roland. I know wikidata is working on an more automated way to add language interwiki links. Should be easier in the long run. Travel Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:58, 14 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

It's correct but wikidata is still under development. --RolandUnger (talk) 08:00, 15 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Now, we are discussing at the Lounge #Wikidata, where I put useful links. If you are interested you can participate there. Raoli (talk) 21:40, 1 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Done. If you want to access your old user page for any reason, it is here [1]. --Peter ^Talk 14:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your help. --RolandUnger (talk) 15:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hello! Sorry for writing in English. As you're an administrator here, please check the message I left on MediaWiki talk:Licenses and the village pump. Thanks, Nemo 19:22, 18 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

i,m old user in fa.wiki and fa.wikivoyage - now is edit iranian city,County and Province ,and create new page , now i have problem , my account here is user , plz change my group user to autopatrolled, patroller thanks Florence (talk) 20:53, 12 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Because I am a founder of Wikivoyage I have the admin right. But I use it only after consulting the English community to support the community. Independent of your work at fa.wiki and fa.wikivoyage you should demonstrate also on en.wikivoyage that you can contribute constructively. After some time you will get these rights also by the English community directly. The rights requested by you are not necessary to create new articles. This can be done by everyone. These rights are helpful only for human patrollers who will review the newly created article(s) and mark the page as patrolled.

I hope that we can have a tight collaboration with the German community in future, too, to improve the articles on Iranian sites. --RolandUnger (talk) 14:34, 13 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

thanks Roland , if not have problem plz see my disscution , thanks Florence (talk) 15:34, 13 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

hi dear @RolandUnger:

fa.wikivoyage not have DB (Could not find a wiki with a domain or database name like "fa.wikivoyage".)and (Can't connect to MySQL server on 'fawikivoyage.labsdb' (-2) ) in tools.wmflabs? plz check this link and help , we not can check Statistics , thanks , Florence (talk) 02:55, 9 November 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Roland. I'm just wondering why you're editing user pages like User:PrinceGloria/Södermalm.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:22, 19 November 2016 (UTC)Reply

To give support to these users because of broken map links. --RolandUnger (talk) 05:31, 20 November 2016 (UTC)Reply

User:Matroc explained this on my user talk page. Thanks for doing this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:47, 20 November 2016 (UTC)Reply

Hi Roland. I saw that you worked before on the development of Kartographer.js. Can you by any chance refer me to a detailed list of all the items in the Traffic Line Network map layer (that is available in the dynamic maps)?

(It should probably look something like this: Black Lines - routes of interurban bus lines, Red Lines - routes of urban bus lines, Pink Lines - routes of the light rail, etc.)

ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 18:20, 29 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

@ויקיג'אנקי: I'm sorry to not have better news. All the additional maps like that of Traffic Line Network are external maps which are put as layers above our owns. The current styles for the traffic line maps were given by the team of openptmap.org and, therefore, we cannot change them. --RolandUnger (talk) 04:21, 30 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

I don't want to change any of them... all I want, is to see a full list, a sort of "legend", that shows exactly what color is what means of transportation (as of now for example, one has to guess that the Black lines mean routes of interurban bus lines (that's correct, right?). Does such a list exist or would I have to guess by myself what means of transportation each type of line in the Traffic Line Network layer means? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 20:29, 30 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

I think the only way to add such a feature is to modify MediaWiki:Kartographer.js but I am not sure if adding a legend is really possible. --RolandUnger (talk) 05:17, 11 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

Any dynamic maps with the Relief Map layer have the caption "API Key Required" on them since yesterday. (see example below - please change the map layer to the Relief Map layer in order to see the caption).

26°19′5″S 31°8′22″E

Map of RolandUnger

How can we remove those captions? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 16:22, 18 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

We cannot remove these captions. Thunderforest.com (Open Cycle Map) changed their license policy, anyone has now to use a API key. Now I do not know if can can use other maps. People must have an own account at Thunderforest.com first. The URLs in the past like http://{s}.tile.thunderforest.com/landscape/{z}/{x}/{y}.png must have an addition like ?apikey=<insert-your-apikey-here> but I think we cannot do it for Wikivoyage in general. See also OSM Help Page.

If anyone knows another relief maps source then we can change it easily.

Maybe we should ask the Mediawiki developers to provide relief maps, too. --RolandUnger (talk) 17:04, 18 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

Hi Roland! Looks like you are really active (and that's an understatement, likely :) ) regarding development of new features for WV (as well as, if I understood it right, the kartographer extension in the past?). I was about to try to add "automagic data fetch for listings from wikidata", but it appears you already created great bunch of LUA scripts for this (compared to the template-based stuff on english version). Is there some reason why this is not used also in EN version (like dislike of the community?)? Seems quite superior to me. Among other things, I also like the improved interactive listing editor and listing icons... So what about porting this stuff? :) Andree.sk (talk)

Firstly, why not used: In the past I made some proposals for improvements like this and others. But all of them were refused by the English community. This is really frustrating.

Mey2008 started to develop the precursor of the current Kartographer. He moved away because of the behavior of the English community (like Wrh2). Now I try to continue his work. But it is a huge strain to me.

Already in October 2016 — after the redesign of our quickbar template — I started to re-program our vCard/listing and marker templates from scratch and to mess up the old templates. The main idea was to give support of fetching data from Wikidata. It was a huge work because of many interactions with other tools including the listing editor. In a workshop given at the Austrian Wikimedia chapter in December 2016 we tested it completely in a new manner: firstly entering data into Wikidata and later adding it to the articles. We solved a lot of problems for instance the reduction of calculating times. Of course, the work is not yet finished.

Porting this means of course huge work, and we had to do this step by step. And I can support you. But it is necessary to rethink the usage of listing templates, and the English community has to reach a consensus on the use of the new tools. The main difference is the typing of the localities. There is only one template: vCard / listing, no eat, sleep and so on. This is given to the type parameter, a more detailed one: we deprecated parameters like eat, sleep in order to encourage the use of more detailed ones like hostel, campsite, holiday flat, hotel, resort and so on. We will need this to move these data later to set instance of (P31). The replacement of the old templates can be done by a bot.

I should give a more comprehensive explanation of the things we have done.

From Saturday, I will be in a vacation for two weeks. After this we can continue our discussion. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:25, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

I think there's no rush on this, and I'm far too small fish to push it anyway :) But perhaps I'll use your help... Probably the best solution would be to start a "parallel listing editor", that could be opt-in. Didn't check the sources yet too deeply, but it seems strange that the editor is hardcoded in such a way that it couldn't manipulate ''{{listing|type=eat|...'' and ''{{eat|...'' templates the same way (as aliases)? Also, did I get you right, that your target is eventually to put all the listings into wikidata? From what I gathered, english wikivoyage isn't a big fan of wikidata yet - though I plan to spin a few bots to show the advantages :) Maybe I'll be done with one until you return. Thanks for the info! Andree.sk (talk) 18:52, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

As I told all tools, in particular listing template and listing editor, are interacting. You cannot pick only one item — you had to use the complete package: all or nothing. And firstly we had to start with the vCard / listing template itself.

At redesigning the listing editor I decided to stop any backward compatibility to reduce complexity and program size. This is one cause that we do not support eat templates and others any longer. Other causes are the more comprehensive subdivision of types and our plan to subdivide do (culture, recreation, sports and fitness) and other (health, teaching & learning, administration and uncategorized). Then we have so many templates doing the same which cannot derived from a chapter header any longer. On the other hand we have locations without any type because we are fetching all from Wikidata. Another huge task is to make the editor available to mobile Wikivoyage editions which necessitates further code optimization.

In the past, we were really happy to have user Mey2008. He developed our first dynamic map. Later, he was literally bombarded with development and support demands by the English community — not by the Germans — also for tools he was not involved. He finished his work at Wikivoyage and does not speak with us any longer. The same was for Wrh2 — the main programmer of English Wikivoyage. I have to prevent the same with me.

If we introduce the new tools set to English and other Wikivogaye branches then we will transfer it as is. I will not give special treatment and support because I have no time. And we have 19 Wikivoyage editions to support.

That means that we need a consensus of the English community and its will for clean-up. Of course we had to explain why and what we plan to do. --RolandUnger (talk) 06:52, 16 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

With "Eat" templates no longer being used, what kinds of templates are used for "Eat" listings? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:07, 16 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

{{eat}} and others should be substituted by {{listing}}. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:13, 16 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

That seems unfortunate. I guess the advantage is sharing listings between all Wikivoyage language versions. Is there any other advantage? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:01, 16 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

A {{listing}} can easily be transferred to all other language versions (on German Wikivoyage with renaming to vCard). The problem is that I am now almost the only (author-)programmer at Wikivoyage, and I have really a lot to do. I know that many authors learned that we have better (but complex) tools at the German Wikivoyage. We did it ourselves because the English community is not willing to renew its tools. At any time you have to decide to use more modern (for instance with Wikidata support) or obsolete tools and concepts. If the jQuery dialog and autocomplete libraries will be removed (because they are deprecated) the listing editor will not work any longer. We are looking for alternative libraries at the German branch for our own tools. Now you should think about and discuss the further development of the listing tools in your community. --RolandUnger (talk) 10:16, 16 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

I understand what you're saying, but I have no idea who among the regulars at en.voy is good at that kind of programming. Certainly not I. But if all the listing templates other than "listing" will stop working, that's serious, and I don't think many en.voy regulars are at all aware of that, even if it was mentioned before. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:26, 16 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

We had to run a bot before which is replacing the templates. This can be done by simple regular expressions. I think in this case we can ask a Wikipedian. --RolandUnger (talk) 12:58, 16 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

That would be good. I'd like to post about this in the Pub, but I feel a bit out of my depth. I guess the main points would be that all types of listing templates except for {{listing}} will stop being usable beyond a certain date? Do you know when? I guess I'm still not sure I fully understand, but if I am understanding correctly, I think we'd be foolish not to accept any help you can give us. By the way, it's also not clear to me that there was a rejection of your offer in the thread at User talk:Wrh2#Listing editor will start next week on German Wikivoyage. Instead, Ryan said he wouldn't be able to deal with this and passed it over to User:Andyrom75. Then, perhaps it was never acted on. But I don't think very many people read the thread on that user talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:40, 17 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

[Now my two-weeks holiday starts...] After this we can think about a date. As I told we will do it step by step. At the end we should have a set of tools working at all language branches. Maybe working together with the Hebrew community. But I will also explain to the community our goals and the way to do this. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:17, 17 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Have a great vacation! Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:47, 17 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Swept in from the pub

In the past, structures like the island of Ios or Lago di Garda were missing on map. This problem is now solved. It seemed do be a problem of not closed polygons. Please give a hint if such failures reappear. --RolandUnger (talk) 08:01, 19 July 2019 (UTC)Reply

If you want edits like this to be noticed, I'd recommend not marking them as minor. I suppose you have the "mark edits as minor as default" option checked in your preferences. If so, you should be very careful to uncheck the "this is a minor edit" box when you do something that should be noticed by fellow editors. Minor edits do not show up on watchlists of many users, and many (including me) usually ignore them anyway if the editor is trusted. –LPfi (talk) 12:46, 7 November 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi, RolandUnger.

Since m:Wikivoyage Association ended the affiliate recognition, I along with other users created a user group which is in charge of promoting the development and dissemination of various projects with less visibility including Wikivoyage. I'd like to invite you so you can share your experiences.

Otherwise, if you have questions can ping me and I'll answer you. :) Greetings, --Galahad Yes? (eswikivoyage) 18:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi!

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18:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

--SHB2000 (talk) 06:52, 18 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your service as a Wikivoyage bureaucrat. As you may be aware, our bureaucrats policy indicates that bureaucrats who have not edited the English Wikivoyage or made at least one admin or bureaucrat action in over 12 months should have their bureaucrat flags removed. This is for account security purposes, not a reflection of a loss of trust or any disappointment.

This is currently being discussed at Wikivoyage talk:Bureaucrats#Inactive bureaucrats 2022/09. All comments are more than welcome.

--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:44, 4 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your service as a Wikivoyage bureaucrat. As you may be aware, our bureaucrats policy indicates that bureaucrats who have not edited the English Wikivoyage or made at least one admin/bureaucrat action in over 12 months should have their bureaucrat flags removed. This is for account security purposes, not a reflection of a loss of trust or disappointment.

This is currently being discussed at Wikivoyage talk:Bureaucrats#Inactive bureaucrats 2023/09. All comments are more than welcome. As of writing this, your bureaucrat flag will be removed on September 18, 2023, via SRP.

If you have any questions or concerns, let me know.

--SHB2000 via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply