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Wikivoyage talk:Image policy Voyage Tips and guide

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Full-size images not available on maps in city districts

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Swept in from the pub

Since yesterday (and possibly earlier), the images in listings can be viewed in the dynamic map but trying to click on it to go to the full description page will lead to a broken link if they are in a city district page. This raises the issue on image attribution. You can test it on any listings with images at Queens/Flushing-Northeast and Toronto/Etobicoke. Anyone have insight on what recent changes broke this functionality? OhanaUnitedTalk page 15:46, 12 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes, needs to be fixed. For some reason, the File: prefix is prefixed by the district name. I try to check Module:Listing for the bug. –LPfi (talk) 11:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
Oops, the city name, not the district. Seemingly the article name is included in the image argument, and removed, but not properly so for subarticles. Module:Marker is possibly more relevant than Listing, but it is some underlying functionality that is the culprit. My understanding of how modules work is too weak for me to find it. –LPfi (talk) 12:10, 13 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
The marker on the map seems to be constructed using mw.text.jsonEncode. Where can one read that code? Was there some change recently? –LPfi (talk) 08:30, 30 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Selection and number of images

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[split off as suggested by OhanaUnited 02:39, 30 June 2025 (UTC). –LPfi (talk) 08:17, 30 June 2025 (UTC)]Reply

The images embedded within listings are often not the best currently available. They don't display unless you click and faff about, so they don't enhance the page appearance encountered by the general reader. Wouldn't it be neat if there was some repository of images that were the best available copyfree, that could be simply incorporated into the page layout? We'd be sure to use those instead, right? Grahamsands (talk) 20:20, 15 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
The main problem with that is that somebody needs to pick those best available images. That's done in Commons' galleries, where images uploaded in the last dozen years aren't included. We could use the image on Wikidata, but they might not be chosen according to what they are like as thumbnails. Perhaps a specific wikidata property could be created for thumbnail images or even Wikivoyage thumbnail images (like for our banners). About having to click several times, that could be improved, but we don't want clutter, so some discussion is needed on the trade-off if we want to change the status quo. –LPfi (talk) 18:33, 17 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
Picking those best images and considering how best to display them is exactly what editors should do, same as picking the best attractions or accommodations to list in a town, we shouldn't lazily accept what's already on the page. It's hardly an onerous task, and we want the best for our readers. Grahamsands (talk) 19:00, 17 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
Maybe we can take assistance from AI tools to ease out the problem, just like we sometimes use AI to pick the best attractions to visit, and choose the appropriate accommodation. Sbb1413 (he) (talkcontribs) 19:07, 17 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
I haven't heard about us letting such decisions to AI, and I'm not sure we should do it with images. But regardless of what way the images get chosen, it would be good if the choice were saved at Wikidata, to be used automatically. As the images aren't shown in the article itself, the less effort we need to use choosing, the better. –LPfi (talk) 19:55, 17 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
How much effort do we need to save here? The first example cited was Queens / Flushing. That page is under-illustrated, with one strong image and two so-so. It took me 10 min to find six more good images on Commons, about the right number for a page of this length. Inserting them might take 3 mins apiece, say 20 min, which I'm not volunteering to do as the entire page needs updating, a solid day's work. Grahamsands (talk) 21:07, 17 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
Choosing images sounds like a task that some people would love to do. Maybe we could advertise it better? It's even a task that people who don't speak English well should be able to do. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:40, 18 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
It could be a good task, but I have seen a lot of image adding that isn't optimal: ignoring our guideline of Minimal use of images, trying to illustrate individual listings instead of the article as a whole, writing captions to that effect, and placing the images in ways that suite the editor's browser window rather than conform to best practices.
Increased advertising of this activity should thus be done cautiously, to avoid frustration both among those adding images and those patrolling.
The original issue was about images for the dynamic map, which is different from illustrating the article.
LPfi (talk) 07:00, 19 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
As a side note, Wikivoyage:Image policy#Minimal use of images probably needs both a little re-writing ("1 image per screen": Whose screen size?) and some reconsidering, as availability of internet access has generally improved since then (the last significant update was in 2018, based on a discussion started in 2016).
But I agree that it's a tangent for the current thread. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:18, 20 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
How carefully did you read Minimal use?
"1 image per screen (1,000–2,000 bytes)"
I suppose you want to suggest an increase in the number of images we should use, and if so, do that at Wikivoyage talk:Image policy. But keep in mind that the mobile interface sucks and the site is still better viewed on a computer. I would be likely to oppose any change in the language, as there is flexibility to use more images than stated in the guideline as long as there isn't an unbroken stream on the left side; images left, right and center; or images that go below the end of the article, which looks terrible. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:19, 20 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
I read that, and I wondered which method we're using to measure "1,000 bytes". One screenful – edge to edge, top to bottom, on my laptop, with my font, my size (larger than default), my zoom (120%), etc. – is right around 2000 characters for me, but others may have half that, or four times that. Shorter lines (e.g., using only half the line at the end of a paragraph, or a short item in a list) adds volume without adding characters.
If we're using the file size, then wikitext and URLs add bulk to the file without affecting the screen size. We could have "1,000 bytes" and have a half-full screen (on my laptop) or "2,000 bytes" and still have a half-full screen. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:41, 20 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
These are rough estimates. An A4 with 67×47=3150 is quite close to 2k, if there are images, headings and paragraph breaks, probably much less if there are lists. I suppose an A4 is close to readability optimum (my browser and Emacs windows are not far off). My mobile phone seems to have 50×33=1650, perhaps 1k with images etc. The numbers don't seem to be too far off. Without prescribing a test with some specific browser window size, we cannot give precise advice. LPfi (talk) 14:16, 22 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
From your estimate, the numbers appear to be off by 50%. 3150 = would be "quite close" to 3K, not 2K.
I think that a more practical suggestion would be: Every well-developed section should usually have one image, so long as this can be done without the images dropping down into the next section. On desktop, this usually requires a minimum of 10 to 12 lines of text per landscape image. Very long sections can have two images.
This would address the wikitext-vs-displayed problem and the difference between a solid paragraph and a long bullet list with one or two words on each line.
But as we noted above, this is a separate discussion from the original concern. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:15, 22 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
Can we take the "select the best picture" conversation into a sub-section? My original intention of this post is to report a bug which leads to the legal issue of image attribution. OhanaUnitedTalk page 02:39, 30 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Flags

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Swept in from the pub

It is my understanding that Wikivoyage does not decorate articles with flags. User:Martinvl has begun adding flags to English county articles, for example here. Before they continue this work, I would like to ask the community whether we want to do this in Wikivoyage. Ground Zero (talk) 22:09, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

I can see a point in adding flags to destinations where travellers are likely to see them often. However I think that you will only see most English County flags if you look at the council offices. You are unlikely to see them on road signs directing you to the county. We may want a discussion about including them in country articles, and maybe other cases where it may be helpful for a traveller to recognise them. AlasdairW (talk) 22:22, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
In the last few years, I have seen an increase in the number of people who put their county flag on their car’s rear windscreen. I agree that there is a great variation in how much different county flags are displayed. The Cornish flag is used quite widely - go into any supermarket and look at the packaging Ginsters Cornish pasties. You will see the flag there. Another flag that is very common is the Welsh flag. May I suggest as acimpromise that if it is worth describing the flag and its origins in the “Understand” section, then it can depicted, otherwise not. Martinvl (talk) 22:55, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
What you [Alasdair] say is exactly my thoughts on this too. //shb (t | c | m) 23:30, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I cannot imagine circumstances in which a traveller really needs to know what a subnational flag looks like, or a national flag either. I think they violate the principle of Minimal use of images:
Don't get overexcited adding images to articles. Travellers may be using Wikivoyage from networks with low bandwidth, or with a cost for every MB used. Several travellers may be sharing the one poor mobile data connection. A traveller using the Wi-Fi on a bus or train may only have a few MB of free data allowance for a long journey. Minimal use of images ... means enough images to illustrate the text and show some of the highlights but not so many as to overwhelm the text and turn the article into a photo gallery.
Those with an interest in flags can easily find then on the Wikipedia article linked on every page. Similarly, travellers are unlikely to need to know a jurisdictions coat of arms, or motto, or the name of the sitting mayor, or which party controls the council. Ground Zero (talk) 00:46, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I agree there – there may be a point for including it in country articles and (debatably) 1st-level subdivisions (probs wouldn't add any myself, though), but English counties are 2nd-level subdivisions where flags are seldom used. //shb (t | c | m) 01:10, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
We used to have flags in the country articles, in the banners next to the name, and if I remember correctly, in the infoboxes before we had banners. I thought we should had kept them - having one flag is a different thing than turning the article into a photo gallery. Not sure if we need flags and blazons for cities and regions, although French Wikivoyage has them in such articles too (e.g. fr:New York) . --Ypsilon (talk) 05:10, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Flag images might possibly have some travel value at the country level (because a traveler will likely see them often), but below the country level, flag images are just noise. I would also dislike seeing the "Related Pages" thumbnails picking up flag images when some genuinely interesting photos would better represent a destination. Mrkstvns (talk) 14:21, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I really don't think they're useful on country pages. In countries where the flag is flown often, all travelers will see it and understand whose flag it is very quickly, whereas in countries where the flag is rarely flown, they certainly won't need to know what it looks like. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:29, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I also wonder if we need a locator map for every single first-level division of a country. For example, we have locator maps in West Bengal, Maharashtra, etc. Sbb1413 (he) (talkcontribs) 05:33, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Those are more useful than flags but probably not essential because of the existence of multi-state region articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:46, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Yeah if we absolutely had to pick between either flags or locator maps, I would pick locator maps which actually does have its benefits. //shb (t | c | m) shb (t | c | m) 05:57, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Further to my earlier suggestion, I have given the matter some thought and it may be useful to include a flag or other emblem in the "Culture" sub-section is that flag or emblem is described in that sub-section. Martinvl (talk) 17:24, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Are flags really what we want to compromise our "Minimal use of images" policy for? Ground Zero (talk) 18:39, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

No. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:43, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I have made a few minor changes to the page on Wales. Are these changes appropriate? Meanwhile, I will delete the flags from those pages where I cannot find a cultural use such as I found for Wales. Martinvl (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Images and flags and discussions about flags are more appropriate to Wikipedia than Wikivoyage. I suggest they be removed from all topics (not just those where Martinvl has added them). Mrkstvns (talk) 20:36, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Flags are mostly decorative but can occasionally be useful, particularly in places where you don't know the language. National (i.e. sovereign state) flags should definitely be included in entries and subnational ones (Irish counties, U. S. states, cities, etc.) are sometimes helpful and sometimes a thing you would just never see. Flags of people groups or political movements could be very useful for understanding things like "I am in a territory run by Hizbollah/Zapatistas/Naxalites" or "I am in a place that has a lot of Sikh nationalism". I would like to think that anyone visiting the sort of place where these markers are important would have the sense to already know this or just not visit at all, but that's not always true, so letting someone know with a simple visual "this means you're in Somaliland and this means you're in Puntland" could genuinely help someone. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:33, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

There is always room for exceptions. If the presence of particular flags indicates a threat to anyone in particular and is not simply a normal flag in a particular area, it might make sense to show an image of it in the "Stay safe" section. But that's the only exception I can think of off-hand. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:39, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Flags in places where you don't speak the language can maybe tell you where you are going. It's a bit unlikely that you will be on the border of X and Y and not know it but also know what the flags of X and Y look like, but I could imagine the scenario where being in a transit hub and just knowing "I need to go to that flag" or communicating via it could be useful. Otherwise, they are decoration. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:50, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I don't think knowing what countries' flags look like is the best way to avoid accidentally straying across borders. I also feel like you're straying toward Captain Obvious territory. We don't need to spoon-feed everything to our readers, do we? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:12, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I don't know that simply showing "this is what Gabon's flag is" is spoon-feeding. —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:22, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
It's more that no-one has really been able to identify the usefulness of images of national flags to travellers beyond general knowledge. Adding another image to country articles, which are usually fairly long, doesn't seem warranted. Ground Zero (talk) 22:39, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Ground Zero: I noticed that you removed the image of the Flag of Cornwall and the image of St Piran from the article Cornwall. I checked the history of the article and I noticed that in January of last year you split the article into three - West Cornwall, North Cornwall and South Cornwall and that the images you removed today were in the article at that time.

I have lived in the UK for over 40 years and from my observations, the three areas where flags are very much in evidence as part of the local culture are Cornwall, Wales and to a lesser extent, Scotland. While I have no problem with most of the images of flags being removed, I think that there is a very strong case for at least those of Cornwall and Wales being retained.

I did a straw poll using Wikimedia Commons categories: Commons:Category:Photographs of flags of Cornwall, Commons:category:Photographs of the national flag of Wales and Commons:Category:Photographs of flags of England. A count of the number of images for the different counties (Cornwall:56, London:17, Devon:7) will confirm what I have written while Scotland had 288 photographs. No other county matched these totals.

I request therefore that you restore the images in the article Cornwall that you removed. Martinvl (talk) 16:55, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

I suggest that you read the comments above. A straw poll of Wikimedia Commons images matters less than the consensus of the Wikivoyage community. There just isn't support for maintaining flags in general. I removed three images from the Cornwall article: the flag, a painting of St Piran, and the Cornwall tartan. This was an example of Wikivoyage trying to be a poor imitation of Wikipedia. Wikivoyage could try to provide a comprehensive introduction to the history and culture and politics of places, or it could try to be an effective travel guide. St Piran and the Cornwall tartan are not relevant to travellers. Travellers will see the flag of Cornwall frequently in Cornwall, unless things have changed since I was there a few years ago. Wikivoyage does not need to explain things that are obvious.Ground Zero (talk) 17:08, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I think Cornwall is a unique Celtic region compared to the rest of England, which is Germanic. So, at list the flag can be kept to represent the unique region. Sbb1413 (he) (talkcontribs) 18:21, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Cornwall's cultural uniqueness and its flag are explained in the text. Ground Zero (talk) 20:22, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
... and the image complements the text. Martinvl (talk) 20:25, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I think a good photo of the flag flying can be added to country and region articles Understand section where the flag is commonly used. Most counties in England don't have photos on Commons that meet this criteria - Cornwall is one of the few exceptions. Simple flags can be effectively described in text, but it is harder to describe non-geometric ones like the one for Wales. AlasdairW (talk) 22:45, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I'm still trying to figure out how this is travel-related, and warrants an exception to the Minimal use of images policy. It really is just general knowledge, which is something that Wikipedia is more suited to, isn't it? Ground Zero (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Cornwall, Wales and Scotland are often referred to as the “Celtic Fringe” and the increased display of flags is part of those areas asserting their identity and culture (which is part of the reason that they attract visitors). One of the reasons for minimal image use is the constraint on bandwidth. Wiki travel pages transmit images in PNG format which is highly compressible when there are large areas of mono-colours (as is the case with flags). Martinvl (talk) 07:05, 20 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
SVGs are smaller. File:Flag of Cornwall.svg is 211 bytes – the same size as this comment (including the sig). WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:48, 20 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
You are probably right that in this case the SVG is smaller than the corresponding PNG. It is my understanding, though I am open to correction, that when a Wikimedia page is being sent to a user, Wikimedia converts all image files to PNG format. If the user clicks on that image, it is retransmitted in its original format. In either case, the data that is sent to the user to reconstruct a flag image is small compared to the amount that is sent to reconstruct a JPG image. Martinvl (talk) 17:22, 20 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
It is my experience in Cornwall and Scotland that no-one visiting will not see the flag frequently during their visit. It's obvious. Ground Zero (talk) 17:33, 20 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
If a family is going to visit Cornwall by car, a good game to keep the children quiet is to ask who will be first to spot a Cornish flag. This article will brief the parent in advance that this is something worth doing. Martinvl (talk) 19:47, 20 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
There are dozens of sites for flag fans. Wikivoyage shouldn't be one of them. Ground Zero (talk) 19:55, 20 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Agreed, there are dozens of books on flags, but why would a parent travelling to Port Isaac invite their children to look out for the Cornish flag while those travelling to Bognor would not invite their children to look out for the West Sussex flag? It is far more likely that the parent would have picked up this gem of information from a travel guide rather than from a book on flags. Martinvl (talk) 16:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
You could add links to a flag page for kids to Travelling with children, instead of decorating articles widely for the sake of a child's car trip game? There are many car trip games for children, but they do not belong in region or country articles. It is too specific. Ground Zero (talk) 17:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── It would be make more sense to have images of famous sights which have a flag hoisted on it. For example, the Sydney Harbour Bridge usually has the Australian flag, NSW state flag and Aboriginal flag raised. That is how travellers will most likely experience seeing flags on their trips. Adding an image of a generic flag without any context is meaningless, with the exception of possibly the national flag on the country page, because it is good to get familiar with the flag of the country you're travelling to if you see it in airports, etc. Gizza (roam) 01:22, 21 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

If you see it in the airport, you'll get familiar with it right away, so why do we need to give you a preview? No problem with pictures of famous sights that include flags, of course. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:25, 21 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
The Australian national flag and Aboriginal flag on Sydney Harbour Bridge
A good idea to illustrate two concepts in one image, but one should make sure that both are well illustrated. The image on the right does not really illustrate the Aboriginal fag very well (unless you double click on it!). Martinvl (talk) 16:42, 21 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

I think that we need to get back to basics: the main reason given for not displaying flags is that we want to limit the amount of data that is delivered to the user who might have a low bandwidth connection. In my opinion, this is not a reason not to display flags but it is a good reason to limit the total number of images displayed. I therefore suggest that no special rules apply to flags, but rather that we limit the number of images in the "Understand" section to one and if an image of a flag gives a better understanding of the topic image than any other image, so be it. Martinvl (talk) 11:18, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Replace a photo of a place that helps me decide whether I want to go there with a flag I can see on Wikipedia and a hundred other websites? No, thanks.
An important reason for not displaying flags is that it is general knowledge, and not directly travel related. The only connection to practical travel information that's been offered has been "a parent travelling to Port Isaac inviting their children to look out for the Cornish flag". Put it in Travelling with children, not here.
Ground Zero (talk) 11:41, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
On the contrary. May I suggest the caption for the Cornish flag as follows: "The frequency with which the Cornish flag is displayed is an indication of their unique cultural heritage". Martinvl (talk) 12:31, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I prefer to stick with travel information. It's what Wikivoyage does best. Leave flags to Wikipedia, Flagpedia.net, Flags of the world, etc. And many cultural groups display flags. That is not unique to the Cornish. Ground Zero (talk) 13:43, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I agree that it's not unique to the Cornish, but when it is unusual for an area, I think it's appropriate for us to include a flag. That can be done subtly, with a photo of a place that "just happens" to display the flag, or it can be done in the ==Understand== section, with a paragraph that says you'll see this flag around a lot, or we could take a tip from LGBT travel and put the flag in the banner, but I don't see any logic in saying that only country articles can ever have images of flags. Wikivoyage:The traveller comes first says that "Regions, price classifications, etc., are based on the convenience and expectations of travellers, not bureaucratic fiat (administrative districts, formal star ratings and so on)", and I think that the same principle applies here. Exactly like we don't always follow the exact legal border of 'a city' in deciding what belongs in (or out) of a given article, we should also not always follow the exact legal definition of 'a country' in deciding which articles should show or say something about a flag. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:27, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
A flag can indeed add a splash of colour to a picture of a building or a landscape. But a picture of a flag as a flag is just background information. Country flags are particularly obvious, and therefore unnecessary. Any flag that is commonly flown, like that of Cornwall, is obvious. Any traveller will see it. A flag that isn't commonly flown in a place is a curiosity or trivia question, not essential information for a travller. Ground Zero (talk) 16:52, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
There's rarely any important reason to show a thumbnail of a country's flag, so I'm not seeing that as a strong argument for showing regional flags. As always, I agree with Ground Zero on this topic, and I'm surprised by how much support there is for using a picture of a flag as one of the few thumbnails allowed as illustrative and informative images per this site's Wikivoyage:Image policy#Minimal use of images guidelines, which exist not only for technical reasons but as part of Wikivoyage's house style. We've had previous discussions about different guides' styles in regard to whether or how many photos to use and came up with our current policy, which is designed to help people determine where they want to travel and what they want to see while they're there, without making our articles image galleries. I wouldn't exclude that some highly eccentric person might choose where to travel based on a flag, but that would be very weird behavior, indeed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:11, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Bavarian flag pattern, with a pretzel
Bavarian flag pattern on a train
If "Any traveller will see it", then I think that argues in favor of mentioning it. We'd hardly say "Oh, right, any traveller to Anaheim will see Disney stuff, so no need to include any of that. That's Captain Obvious territory!"
I'm not sure that a flat photo/drawing of a flag is usually the right approach, but I wouldn't want to exclude it absolutely. I'd rather see things like images that "just happen" to include it. For example Bavaria#Regions says that blue and white are the national colors. The "Bavarian heaven" diamond pattern is very common in the region. I see no reason not to choose a photo that includes that, and to call out the flag's existence. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:50, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Coming back to the start of this discussion, it is about one user posting flags (flat photos/drawings) on a bunch of articles all at once: Berkshire, Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire, Wilshire, Somerset, Warwickshire, Wales, Kent, Essex, Leicestershire, and Dorset. I am not arguing that flags should be banned. I am arguing that they should not be included unless there is a valid travel reason to do so. Including them as a matter of course is cluttering up articles with non-travel-related images to please flag fans. Ground Zero (talk) 17:01, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Call me eccentric, but when I travel I do take note of heraldic sysmbols, though I do not base my travelling around such symbols. I do however photograph interesting ones when I come across them. Here is a selection that I have loaded onto Commons. most of which are Valued Images:

The only one of these images that might be useful in Wikivoyage is the one showing the entrance to the French town of Marseillan which, under French Law doubles up at a 50 km/h speed limit (this is already covered in the article Driving in Europe. It might be a useful addition to the article Occitanie as it shows the Occitan colours of maroon and gold. That article is however already overloaded with images, so I will let someone else put it in.

On a more serious note however, a traveller to Northern Ireland should be aware of the symbols used by the different communities, if only so that they spot trouble arising and steer clear of such trouble. Martinvl (talk) 21:53, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Nice photos! I don't think it's eccentric to photograph flags. I agree on Northern Ireland, and those kinds of situations are exceptions in which flags may belong in the "Stay safe" section. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:42, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Going back to the start of this discussion, "is there a travel reason for displaying the Cornwall flag in the Cornwall article?" The points in favour are that the "Understand" section of the article has a paragraph devoted to the flag and the "Festivals" section mentions the flag in the paragraph about the observance of St Piran's Day. Furthermore, the English Wikipedia has an article about St Piran's Day. A search of "St Piran" on the internet will give a wealth of information. In view of this The points against are image clutter, which is not a problem in this case and bandwidth which, given the small byte-count of a .png image is a minor point. I would therefore like to reinstate the image of St Piran's flag in the article of Cornwall. Martinvl (talk) 22:06, 26 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Martinvl, you are consistently misrepresenting my argument against general use of flags in articles. It is not simply about image clutter. I will repeat my main points for you: "I cannot imagine circumstances in which a traveller really needs to know what a subnational flag looks like, or a national flag either." "... no-one has really been able to identify the usefulness of images of national flags to travellers beyond general knowledge." "Any flag that is commonly flown... is obvious.... A flag that isn't commonly flown in a place is a curiosity or trivia question, not essential information for a traveller." "I am arguing that they should not be included unless there is a valid travel reason to do so." Ground Zero (talk) 01:07, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
In the case of national flags, I think it can be useful to know what the flag looks like before arriving. In the past week, I have noticed that shops selling travel accessories sometimes use flags to show the destinations that they are suitable for. This is common with plug adapters, and flags are often shown on the exchange rate signs in exchange bureau. AlasdairW (talk) 21:39, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I am not seeing a consensus in the discussion in favour of adding flags generally. However I think there is support for adding (perhaps as a replacement) a photo that includes the flag, maybe on a building. Perhaps File:Cornish flag by the Ellis Monument, Torpoint, Cornwall - May 2024.jpg could be cropped, but there may be better photos. AlasdairW (talk) 22:40, 26 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I am okay with this approach. Ground Zero (talk) 01:07, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I have added an image to the Understand section as per the suggestion by AlasdairW, but I have chose a different one. I trust that the image I chose is acceptable to the community. Martinvl (talk) 21:21, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Ditto. //shb (t | c | m) 01:13, 28 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I have found an image which uses the flag of St Piran to illustrate that Cornwall is a nation alongside England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. How do readers feel about having both images, or if only one image, which one? Martinvl (talk) 16:05, 31 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Isn't that taking a biased political position? Cornwall is de jure part of England. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:29, 31 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Whether Cornwall should be considered a nation of the UK is a political question indeed, which is not going to be resolved in a travel guide. We know for a fact that it is not considered a nation within the UK. Ground Zero (talk) 17:31, 31 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I removed the added image. Wikivoyage should not become a gallery for flags. There are other websites for that. For hat it is worth, Mebyon Kernow won 4% at the last local elections in Cornwall -- 1,660 votes. Please don't use Wikivoyage to push fringe political agendas. Ground Zero (talk) 17:42, 31 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I am surprised that you identified the image of the barge as promoting a fringe political agenda. The Cornish identity has been recognised by the UK Government as having "National Minority Status" as per European Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities (See this site). The site goes on to say that the Cornish identity has the same status as the Scots, Welsh and Irish. I suggest therefore that the image be restored, but that the caption be modified to use the words "National Minority Status" in the caption. Finally, may I point out that the image displayed the Royal barge which was the lead vessel in the flotilla that in 2012 celebrated the 60th anniversary of the accession of Queen Elizabeth II to the throne and was also used later that year to carry the Olympic Flame up the Thames for the opening of the 2012 Olympic Games. The use of the Cornish flag almost certainly had the approval of the Queen-in-Council and such approval is never given to the promotion of fringe political agendas. Martinvl (talk) 13:49, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply
There's a difference between being recognized as a minority and becoming a nation. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 14:06, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply
The picture does not show the flags well, and is just clutter. The discussion should use words, not pictures. And there is a limit to which we should be spending our time on political issues. Let's focus on travel. Ground Zero (talk) 14:21, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply
Agreed. I avoided commenting here until today for that reason. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 14:25, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply
This. I don't think I ever expected to see a discussion on flags of all things get this lengthy. //shb (t | c | m) 23:41, 1 September 2025 (UTC)Reply


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